Tier 2 Garbodor DRX, Attackers

Discussion in 'Competitive Deck Discussion' started by Wrags23, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    A whole lot of people thought Pyroar was bad and wouldn't be a big deal (@Vablakes) and that's why it could do so well. That and a lot of Gust effects.
  2. Pyroar is bad. I didn't lose to it all weekend, and I was playing Plasma, lolz. If you battle noobz, you're gonna beat them. If your opponent knows how to play against Pyroar, you lose.
  3. Salamencetrainer34

    Salamencetrainer34 An ogre-achiever

    Pyroar is a very good card. Overhyped, yes. Bad, far from it. It literally changed the meta. Because of such a large showing at nationals, it is showing others that the meta really does have a new contender. It changed the meta because now every deck should tech against it or be ruined. They made a great choice with this card, the mets was fill of basic only cards, pyroar says 'If you play all basics against me, get wrecked. ' Along with a nice 90 damage w/ Blacksmith fuel, its a good attacker. It can also use the gust effects (Pokemon catcher/Lysandre) to pull up any and all counters such as raichu or garbador, then KO it! I had to get this off my chest, sorry.
  4. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    The fact that you used a lot of "z's" in your post makes me think you are sarcastic, but I doubt you are. Because you have been saying this for a long time now. I'm not trying to convince you that Pyroar is good, I'm just saying that it is.
  5. SeaLegend

    SeaLegend Active Member

    Agreed on TDK for sure, but this deck definitely does NOT have a bad VirGen matchup. The damage output of Hammerhead early really messes with their deck and allows Mewtwo to clean up easy KOs with access to Lasers. In addition to shutting off their abilities. If I'm playing this deck, the only matchup I'm happier to see is Pyroar.
  6. Chaostamer

    Chaostamer Active Member Staff Member

    This deck doesn't even have a bad TDK matchup at all. You can comfortably Hammerhead early game and sacrifice your first Landorus. Between Hammerhead damage and Lasers, Mewtwo and Raichu can easily clean up a couple of Kyurem and once that happens, the TDK player is out of Energy and has to go for Raiden Knuckle, to which you can respond with another Landorus. I'm honestly more afraid of Genesect than TDK when I play this deck. G Booster is frightening.
    OshaWaterBottle likes this.
  7. SheepInSpace

    SheepInSpace Italian PokéDad

    I agree about G Booster. Early red signals can be a pain too.

    As for TDK, it's not that bad, but it's not very good either. I'd say 40/60 in Plasma's favour. An early Frost Spear OHKO on Landorus is not that difficult, and Deoxys can take care of Mewtwo as well.
    In his interview in the latest article by Mike Diaz on the front page, Brandon Salazar explains what he thinks about his matchups against TDK and VirGen, and why he decided to play the deck anyway (basically, he correctly predicted a lot of Pyroar).

    http://www.sixprizes.com/2014/07/09...-salazar-the-clock-and-last-chance-regionals/
  8. Chaostamer

    Chaostamer Active Member Staff Member

    The thing about the matchup is that in order to stream Kyurem early game, they need to burn a couple Colress Machines quickly, which makes it much harder to get a quick Deoxys-EX response going. What the matchup basically boils down to is that Plasma can overrun you if they get everything they need, but usually they end up missing something and the Landorus-EX player can take control of the game from there. And, sure, an early Kyurem can one-shot a Landorus, but unless they get a Muscle Band and all of their Deoxys early (or something Laser-related), they have to do so with a Blizzard burn, which overcommits their Energy and leaves them vulnerable.

    I think the matchup is basically 50/50. When I was testing this deck for Nationals, I was always happy to see a TDK player across from me.
  9. rustedspork

    rustedspork Member

    25% of the top 32 decks at Nationals were Pyroar. More than any other archetype present. That's one in every four decks. Your stance on Pyroar is just wrong. Being humble enough to admit that is a big character trait.

    I played VirGen myself and got rolled in the blue flight because I underestimated how much Pyroar there would be. It's ok to admit when you make a bad call.

    Back on topic though, I was surprised myself to see Landy make it that far in the tournament, given the amount of hype that TDK was getting. But Chaostamer makes some good points about the Kyurem matchup. I'm sure we can expect to see a rise in play on some level of this deck for the LCQ, given its decent Pyroar matchup, which I'm sure will also be everywhere.

    How does this deck tend to do against Empoleon? I've never really played either, but I'm thinking Empoleon is also a strong play moving forward.
  10. SheepInSpace

    SheepInSpace Italian PokéDad

    Raichu easily one-shots Empoleon, and Miltank is weak to fighting, plus Garbodor shuts off Diving Draw and Sinister Hand, so Landorus/Raichu/Garbodor/Mewtwo definitely has the upper hand. Landorus's weakness can be a factor, and Raichu makes you fill your bench fuelling Attack Command, but overall the matchup is in Landorus's favour.
  11. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    The match up is fairly even in my experience. Empoleon checks Landorus, Raichu checks Empoleon, and Miltank checks Raichu, and Landorus checks Miltank. Pretty much everything counters eachother in that match up. Garbodor is an obvious advantage but you can also Lysandre it and kill it.
  12. Chaostamer

    Chaostamer Active Member Staff Member

    The matchup is heavily in Empoleon's favor. Landorus can take a couple easy prizes, but it IS a couple easy prizes itself. With a couple of Megaphones or Scrappers, Garbodor can be taken out of play fairly easily via Sinister Hand, and the Landorus player has no easy way to take Dusknoir out of play. Raichu can take out an Empoleon, but it gets revenge-KO'd by a Miltank or another Empoleon, and the Empoleon player can stream attackers MUCH more easily than the Landorus player can stream Raichu. Once the Empoleon deck stabilizes (i.e. two Empoleon and a Dusknoir in play), the game is usually over.
    rustedspork likes this.
  13. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    I agree with everything except that they don't have an easy way to take Dusknoir out of play. They have multiple Lysandres to bring it up and stuff like Mewtwo EX/LaserBank to kill it. I suppose you could argue that using a Supporter isn't and "easy" way to deal with stuff, but it's not hard.
  14. KPiplup

    KPiplup An Imposter Staff Member

    A 5 energy Mewtwo+Laserbank?
  15. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    You target them with Landorus EX so then it doesn't take 5 Energy. Also Muscle Band is good too.
  16. Chaostamer

    Chaostamer Active Member Staff Member

    It's still a heavy investment of Energy, Items, and multiple turns, whereas something like Yveltal just needs a Catcher heads and a Y Cyclone (for which it had Energy acceleration). Multiple turns gives the Empoleon player time to start building a Dusclops and if there's enough damage on the board, they can just target down the Mewtwo.
  17. therocket290

    therocket290 New Member

    Garb is weak to Mewtwo, so it only takes 3 energy or 2 and laserbank (or muscle band).
  18. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    We are talking about Dusknoir at the moment.
  19. therocket290

    therocket290 New Member

    Right.
  20. SheepInSpace

    SheepInSpace Italian PokéDad

    I may have overestimated the matchup in Landorus's favour, as Dusknoir is definitely a real pain, but if you get a quick Garbodor out, which isn't hard to do, it's not that easy for the Empoleon player to establish their board. Possibly I haven't played enough matches, or not against good players, but in my experience the matchup is not in Empoleon's favour.