Neo-on Entei/Magcargo

Discussion in 'Archetypes of the Past' started by Pookaveli, Nov 8, 2013.

  1. Pookaveli

    Pookaveli New Member

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    ---Pokémon (15)---
    4 Slugma
    4 Magcargo
    3 Entei (Howl)
    1 Entei (Legendary Body)
    2 Cleffa
    1 Tyrogue

    ---Trainer (25)---
    4 Professor Elm
    4 Copycat
    4 Double Gust
    3 Pokémon Trader
    3 Focus Band
    2 Dual Ball
    2 Scoop Up
    2 Town Volunteers
    1 Healing Field

    ---Energy (20)---
    20 Fire

    Use Entei's Howl to get a bunch of Fire Energy onto a Slugma as quickly as possible. Attack with Magcargo's Lava Flow for tons of damage as early as the second turn. Simple but extremely powerful. Arguably the best deck in the Neo-Skyridge format.
    Floral, Ziggmiceter and baby_mario like this.
  2. flamedstones2

    flamedstones2 New Member

    why would you run tyrogue over elekid, pichu or even magby?
  3. Otaku

    Otaku Well-Known Member

    Because Pooka remembers how it was done. ;)

    Tyrogue (Neo Discovery) was the second best Baby Pokémon. If a deck could open with one, it usually preferred it; you were either setting up or going on the attack early with them, but as long as it was up front it also acted as a defense and disruption. The Baby Rule obviously could delay getting KOed, but it also would stop an attacks your opponent was using to set-up. Anything with 60 or less HP that was Fighting Weak or anything with 30 or less HP that was not a Baby Pokémon had a 50% chance of being KOed by Tyrogue: 30 for (C) was powerful back in the day even when it failed half the time. The 25% chance against Baby Pokémon was still significant, though the disruption was more important.

    Elekid wasn't that impressive and was Pichu (Neo Genesis) bait: Zzzap twice for the KO, and you could do the deed while Elekid was Benched. People did run Elekid, but it was replaced by Tyrogue. After a while, "getting 'rogued" (not to be confused with the still used "going rogue") became a common expression to describe the common occurrence of getting donked by Tyrogue. Just to be clear, Elekid does not combo with Howl; when Entei uses that Pokémon Power, your turn ends immediately after, like Mega Evolving does now. Pichu would damage your own Entei; you would likely rarely end up KOing one yourself (it would take four uses of Zzzap), but you would make it easier for your opponent to finish off whatever you hit; remember this was back when 60 for (XXX) - where X is a non-Colorless Energy requirement - was competitive!

    Now, my question is with the Trainers:
    As stated, this is in the Neo-Skyridge era, so I question why Professor Elm is still in here; still this particular deck might be the exception. Professor Elm draws seven, and while all Trainers are dead-in-hand until next turn (or completely useless if you were going to Eeeeeeek), and you needed an Evolution-ready Pokémon to Evolve, open space for Benching Basics, or drawing an Energy and having not played one before the Professor Elm. I was still a "meh" player back then, but I did better with Professor Oak's Research than Professor Elm... but I hated this deck and so rarely played it. As you could Bench an Entei after a Professor Elm, so maybe that made the difference... even though you couldn't Dual Ball after an Elm.

    Bill had been re-released in the Legendary Collection (the set before Expedition) and running was a staple... well I thought it was, yet I don't see it here. @_@ It didn't get much time before rotating back out (Nintendo took over from WotC with what eventually became TPCi and rotated all sets from before Expedition, so Bill wasn't back with us long), but he was still a normal Trainer at this point: he wasn't nerfed and turned into a Supporter until much later.

    Expedition gave us Bill's Maintenance, Copycat and Professor Oak's Research. Bill's Maintenance was "meh" and so was sometimes skipped: actually a lot of players I remember hearing from hated Supporters at first, so by the time Bill's Maintenance might have gotten a chance, it had already been surpassed by other cards: Expedition, Aquapolis and Skyridge were released quite close together. Copycat could easily feed off of people's hands after they had used Eeeeeeek... or after a Professor Elm that usually grabbed a lot you couldn't play right away, while Professor Oak's Research was reliable shuffle-and-draw without preventing you from using any Trainers at all (just Supporters) for the rest of the turn.

    We got Juggler in Aquapolis; you wanted Basic Energy in the deck and not in the discard pile, but Town Volunteers could help with that, even if it stretched things out over multiple turns (and usually didn't matter in the short run, so still an advantage being able to Dual Ball or use another non-Supporter). Skyridge gave us Desert Shaman (meh for draw power, but great as long as it was before you used Eeeeeeek but after your opponent had used Professor Elm, Eeeeeeek... or Oracle. That last is another missing Supporter: Oracle + Bill = double Computer Search w/o the discard, at the cost of your Supporter for the turn.

    TL;DR: Otaku was an early adopter of Supporter heavy decks; questioning why Professor Elm is there but Bill (which was not a Supporter at the time), Professor Oak's Research, Juggler and/or Oracle are missing.
    Floral likes this.