Tier 2 (Del)RayBoar (Rayquaza EX, Emboar LTR, (Delphox XY))

Discussion in 'Competitive Deck Discussion' started by Wrags23, Nov 25, 2013.

  1. davidryuubryan

    davidryuubryan Dark type Gym Leader

    I made a edit to my last post before this one if no one knew...
    But I digress..all I asked for is a list..standard..minus beaches..I didn't ask for a put down.and if those techs would work..and If any ..which ones. And if any of my ideas will work.[DOUBLEPOST=1398666295][/DOUBLEPOST]Can a deck be played only one way..can it not EVOLVE..(LOL...PUN)..OR Adapt..change..what happens when beach is gone..heck darkria decks has changed, adapted, evolved.but Darkrai is still one of the best decks /cards In the game..even blastoise has lasted long too.[DOUBLEPOST=1398666507][/DOUBLEPOST]If we keep doing this back and forth..some of us are going to have our posts deleted or worse.(suspended/banned) cause we are sort of getting off topic..ish..kind of.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2014
  2. MetalArmedAngel

    MetalArmedAngel My lovely Luka ♥♥

    Slightly going off topic here

    Yes, you can play Rayboar without beach. Not effectively mind you. There is no other option to beach at the moment. Battle City? Please

    Darkrai has changed because it gained cards that helped (or in this case, took over). Mainly Yveltal EX. Nowadays, "Darkrai" decks shouldn't be called Darkrai decks because you hardly attack with Darkrai. Yveltal is just so much better right now. I'm not saying Darkrai is a crappy attacker, I'm saying it has a better attacking option.
    Blastoise is also the same. When it first came out your main/only way of dealing damage was Keldeo, and you would load 6-7 energy Keldeos which made it vulnerable to Mewtwo.
    After BKEX came out, the attacker just switched. Keldeo became a second-hand attacker and a switching method, while BKEX was the focus. This is not an adaption, just utilizing better tools. Would you rather use an axe made of stone or metal? Pretty much the same question.

    Emboar hasn't gained any cards from Flashfire sans Torch. While it may be a decent form of draw, it is inferior to Beach.

    If you really want to run this without beach? Go ahead. No-one is stopping you. Just don't regret your own choice
    Here is a list that I made up on the top of my head

    15 Pokemon
    3-1-3 Emboar
    2-0-2 Delphox
    1 Rayquaza DRV
    3 Rayquaza EX

    14 Supporters
    3 Juniper
    4 N
    3 Skyla
    2 Colress
    2 Shauna/Bianca

    22 Trainers
    A Dowsing Machine
    4 Superior Energy Retrieval
    2 Professor's Letter
    4 Rare Candy
    3 Switch
    4 Ultra Ball
    1 Level Ball
    2 Tool Scrapper

    9 Fire
    3 Lightning
  3. davidryuubryan

    davidryuubryan Dark type Gym Leader

    Thank you very much...
  4. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    I would consider Pokemon Fan Club over Shauna/Bianca, just because without Beach you can't really play Ultra Balls for a bunch of Tepigs/Fennekins, and in that list you only run one Level Ball.
  5. MetalArmedAngel

    MetalArmedAngel My lovely Luka ♥♥

    It was just on the top of my head. I'm not gonna use it lol
  6. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    But davidryuubryan is. It wasn't as much a suggestion to you as it was to him.
  7. KPiplup

    KPiplup An Imposter Staff Member

    He stipulated a list that "is winning." There was nothing wrong with people informing him that there was no such list. I'm sorry, but in the grand scheme of things, League Challenge results mean nothing to the overall meta/quality of a deck.[DOUBLEPOST=1398692499][/DOUBLEPOST]
    The thing is that you asked for a list that "is winning" sans Beach. I can agree that this is no reason for a put-down, and if my post came off that way, I apologize.

    A deck can change/adapt. You give examples of Darkrai and Blastoise.

    Darkrai has received help from the set designers along the way. Shaymin UL/Smeargle UD, and their subsequent rotation provided one iteration/adaption of Darkrai. The rotation of Energy Switch forced it to adapt. The re-release of Energy Switch did the same. Garbodor has added more twists to Darkrai variants. Yveltal EX/Yveltal added another tool to his arsenal, and the deck improved as a result. Darkrai evolved because it lost or gained things in the format.

    Blastoise really hasn't seen that much variation over its time in format, at least when compared to Darkrai. Its first iteration, Keldeo/Mewtwo was powerful for sure, but it soon received Black Kyurem EX, then Superior Energy Retrieval in May. Both of those cards improved Blastoise. When other decks changed a bit, Blastoise started including Electrode in an effort to curtail its consistency flaws. Blastoise evolved not because it lost anything, but because the card designers gifted it with superior versions of cards it was already playing.

    The thing is, Rayboar has not gained anything that justifies not playing Beach. Delphox, as I outlined a few months ago serves a completely different purpose. Yes, Beach is likely only useful on turns 1-3 at most. However, it's that turn 1-3 draw power that allows Rayboar to be able to keep up with the likes of Plasma and Darkrai. Bianca, a supporter in our current format, allows you to draw up to 6. Tropical Beach allows you to draw up to 7. It essentially allows you to play a second supporter, merely at the cost of sacrificing your attack.

    Someone noted that you can use other attacks early, minimizing Beach's utility. However, what is the main goal of Rayboar? It seems that the main goal would be to setup an Emboar and use Rayquaza to OHKO anything in your path, interchanging Reshiram and mini-Rayquaza with Rayquaza EX as necessary. Doing 40 damage with mini-Rayquaza does nothing to further that goal; in-effect playing a second supporter certainly does further that goal.

    Rayboar hasn't been able to "evolve" to not use Beach (in the way Blastoise evolved to not use Mewtwo or regular Energy Retrieval), because there is no superior option to replace it. The day that happens, you will see lists capable of winning decently competitive tournaments without Beach.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2014
    ddbargardi, Floral, Gelato and 3 others like this.
  8. davidryuubryan

    davidryuubryan Dark type Gym Leader

    If I had the beaches and the money it b:they were cheap and ez to get borrow/trade..is run them.. but sadly u dont. I plan to run 2-3 battle city and 2-4 bicycles. I run something to get the effect if what beach is suppose to do..or cards that help me get setup sooner.. search cards u will run poke fan club only 2.since its a supporter..and I only need one to get out what I need.. I will run one of druddigon..from flashfire. Cause his revenge attack will help in mirrors..maybe a 1-1 for piroar to help with that and everything else. Sacred ash will help since I use ser for energies.[DOUBLEPOST=1398740392][/DOUBLEPOST]One pal pad, 2 megaphone, Dowsing, 2skyla, ill work on the rest of the list later. I like bianca..cause I've gotting really good at playing my hand down.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2014
  9. Alastair

    Alastair Mr. Evil Dr. Porkchop

    I say, if one does not have beaches, then either go with a deck that doesn't require them or just find a way to beat them. Simple as that.
    And what is the difference between League challenges, cities and states, and Regionals and Worlds? Is there any difference between them besides the number of players? Good decks and good runs are not restricted to "good" tournaments. To validate any claim of good wins based on tournaments, it would be best to write a report.
    And here's a list I made for Rayboar:

    2x Delphox XY
    1x Braixen XY
    2x Fennekin XY
    3x Emboar LTR
    1x Pignite LTR
    3x Tepig LTR
    3x Rayquaza EX
    1x Rayquaza LTR
    1x Reshiram LTR
    1x Mewtwo EX

    3x Professor Sycamore
    2x Colress
    4x Skyla
    3x N

    4x Ultra Ball
    4x Rare Candy
    2x Professor's Letter
    3x Superior Energy Retrieval
    2x Tool Scrapper
    2x Switch

    1x Battle City

    1x Dowsing Machine

    3x Lightning Energy
    8x Fire Energy
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2014
  10. Gelato

    Gelato The Swarm

    Drop Ghetsis, 1 lightning, and the shaunas for 3 N and 2 Colress. Switch the amounts of the Emboar line and the Delphox line, drop Spiritomb for Reshiram LTR and you should be fine.
  11. Alastair

    Alastair Mr. Evil Dr. Porkchop

    ok: so -1 Ghetsis -1 Lighning, -3 Shauna, and -1 Spiritomb LTR for:
    +3 N, and +2 Colress, and +1 Reshiram LTR
    Yep. Adds up fine, thanks!
  12. Gelato

    Gelato The Swarm

    No problem. N is superior because with Delphox up, you can disrupt your opponent late game while still essentially getting yourself an N to 6.
  13. Alastair

    Alastair Mr. Evil Dr. Porkchop

    Also have room for +1 Battle City
    Changes made in list
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2014
  14. onlyinAMERICA

    onlyinAMERICA ...because I'm Batman.

    First of all, states, regionals, nationals and worlds are all tournaments that are taking very seriously and everyone there is trying to make their run successful.

    league challenges are the tournaments where everyone is trying to make their "fun" deck work.

    second of all, your not even running beaches and your supporter count is abysmal at 11 supporters. One of those being a supporter not many consider to be a real supporter. Your consistency is straight up in the toilet.

    you aren't in any place to be criticizing anyone for their posts on this website with that kind of babble.
  15. KPiplup

    KPiplup An Imposter Staff Member

    All sorts of differences. Concentration of high quality players/lists, ease of reading an LC meta vs Worlds meta, among others.
    MetalArmedAngel likes this.
  16. Alastair

    Alastair Mr. Evil Dr. Porkchop

    Did I ever say I was using this list? Did I ever say that the "criticized" might have to listen? And did you see my corrections to the list?
    I know there are obvious differences in attendance and seriousness, but what does it matter?
    This argument does not belong on this thread.
  17. onlyinAMERICA

    onlyinAMERICA ...because I'm Batman.

    Well you did post the list yourself. It was a pretty safe bet to make. Not to mention every single one of your other lists I've seen you post generally have a recurring pattern.

    Then doesn't that make your previous statements null and void?

    Then why even make your comment in the first place if you weren't meant to defend yourself and your point?
  18. Alastair

    Alastair Mr. Evil Dr. Porkchop

    Answer to #1: Have you seen ALL my lists? No.
    Answer to #2: It does, actually. But Null and Void have nothing to do with it.
    Answer to #3: Because it was generalizing.
  19. onlyinAMERICA

    onlyinAMERICA ...because I'm Batman.

    I've seen a good many of your lists that you have posted to the site and trust me, they all have the same pattern.

    Do you even know what null and void means? Because the way that was worded it really seems like you don't.

    Again, you shouldn't have made the comment if you weren't prepared to defend.
  20. Gelato

    Gelato The Swarm

    Instead of coming at him you could have constructively made suggestions about correcting his lists...