Tier 1 Darkrai-EX, Terrakion NVI, Mewtwo-EX

Discussion in 'HS-on Archives' started by baby_mario, May 21, 2012.

  1. Snivyman2419

    Snivyman2419 New Member

    I tried this list but it loses to hammertime and I mean even if they miss half there flips if you don't have a darkria out and dark patch you're a gonner
  2. madhatterni

    madhatterni Member

    sigh noticed this deck lacks a back up to darkrai hammers
  3. Myles

    Myles Deck Crafter

    In my testing this isn't the case if you play the list correctly. Hammertime can only do so much against dark energies, and you have the edge on them in terms of healing and raw consistency (as well as the eviolite and plus power edge). The key is to drop prism energies on the same turn as terrakion for retaliate - preventing them from getting a chance to destroy it. Hammer players tend to use their energy disruption early game (whenever they hit it) - so if you save the prism for late game you can get it down fairly carefree.
  4. Myles, congrats on placing so highly with the deck! Could I ask, how do you approach each Darkrai matchup (particularly mirror Darkrai Terrakion)? Also, with Zekeels and CMT how did you find the matchup each time?
  5. Myles

    Myles Deck Crafter

    Thank you :)

    I'll quickly go through the match ups:

    Darkrai / Tornadus:
    - The addition of terrakion just gives you these games on a silver platter. Start with darkrai and compete with them in the war, but when convenient use terrakion to get easy prizes. This is an easy matchup.

    Darkrai / Mewtwo:
    - This matchup is slightly more tricky because Mewtwo, when played cleverly, can be used to return KO a terrakion. Generally the focus here is on lots of darkrai, and ideally 2HKOing their mewtwo before getting out terrakion. If you run your own mewtwo you can avoid a lot of these problems - but make sure you avoid mewtwo wars, which you will lose.


    Darkrai/Hammers:
    - Regardless of whether they also have mewtwo/tornadus/terrakion - you need to play this match slightly more conservatively when it comes to energy. If they run sableye, you're smeargle will be a lot faster - abuse this to get out pokemon and energy faster. Avoid playing down more than 1 prism early game, save them in your deck for later drops if possible. If your opponent hits his flips you will be in a tight game, but if they fail you will probably steamroll them.

    Darkrai / Terrakion:
    - To be honest this is a 50:50 matchup, and probably one of the hardest in the format - a lot has to do with who goes first. The key is just to be as consistent and powerful as you can be. Eviolite your darkrai's to prevent them getting KO'd and only play down one at a time. Your deck should have more eviolite/plus-power/shaymin than other decks, and if they are running fighting energy - you have a better likelihood of a T2 night spear (with prism). If they aren't running either eviolite or plus power the matchup will be much easier for you.

    - I did a *lot* of testing against this deck in practice and tbh a lot of it comes down to who goes first. One of the keys to the matchup is to focus on damaging terrakion. If you can landcrush/night spear an active terrakion early on and get it damaged, you will be able to 1HKO it after it retaliates, which is pretty huge. Getting damage on the field (and on those terrakions) is the key. Ideally you want to avoid KOing anything early on too, to prevent retaliate (but this can be hard). Another good trick is to attack terrakion with a plus power doing 100, then you can hit it on the bench with nightspear, grabbing a free prize. However good players will be doing exactly the same thing to you - so just be the best player you can be and hope their deck is worse / they make mistakes / you get lucky. Sadly whoever gets the first turn in this matchup has a huge edge.

    Zekeels:
    - This matchup isn't too bad and eviolites go a long way. Your biggest threats are mewtwo and terrakion, both of which you will need to deal with. The key in this matchup is to get out quicker than them and start breaking their setup. The hardest zekeels decks to deal with are those which run very heavy terrakion lines (2 with 5 or more energy) - these are a very touch matchup indeed, and again your best chance is just to be faster than them. If you think there will be a lot of zekeels then a mewtwo would not be a bad addition to the deck. A lot of zekeels lists don't run plus power - so eviolite is your best friend!

    CMT:
    - This is the matchup I have the least testing against, but its definitely one you can win. The fact that celebi gets 2HKO'd by night spear snipes and the healing you have should go a long way in the matchup. As ever terrakion is the threat and the same things above apply here - get damage on it early. As with eels - CMT tends to run lower plus power counts (they have so much they need to fit in) - so eviolite as much as you can.


    None of these match ups are auto win or loss - and all are good decks to run in this format (except maybe darkrai/tornadus), so expect tough match ups. The key to my list is edging out advantages which will tip the game in your favour. Eviolite, plus power, the extra shaymin, all of those are there to give you the edge you need. Even the single max potion can be pretty game winning, if you heal a Dakrai with 160 damage - or a terrakion with 100 damage. The key is to practice a lot and play smart - thats the best you can do.
  6. Myles

    Myles Deck Crafter

    Oh and a note on dark claw / special darkness energy:

    If you see your opponent running these cards, no need to worry - it means some important things which you can abuse to win the game.

    - Dark Claw / Sp. Dark energy do very little in the back and forth between darkrai - its going to be 2 hits each either way (except in the rare cases where you have enough nightspear snipe damage on you - look out for this), avoid attaching eviolite to darkrai it will do nothing.

    - Many players use dark claw + 2 sp. dark to 1HKO a terrakion - this is often essential to their strategy and their way of dealing with terrakion. However if you eviolite terrakion then they can't do it (they would need 4 sp. dark and a dark claw - which won't happen) - thus an eviolited terrakion can take 4 prizes before being taken down, which is very game winning.

    - If you see dark claw this means they probably run few/less eviolite - which is great, so don't feel like you need to hold onto those plus powers, your terrakion will be having a field day.
  7. Gelatin

    Gelatin So soft and jiggly.

    If I play Prism Energy, how does a Shaymin EX tech sound? It's risky with that low of HP, but if figured it'd be a nice offensive answer to Terrakion NVI. Of course, there's always just using a slightly thicker Mewtwo EX, too.
  8. Myles

    Myles Deck Crafter

    Its a good tech and can work - but can be a little bit tricky getting out at the right time. You *really* want an eviolite on it when you play it.
  9. Gelatin

    Gelatin So soft and jiggly.

    Yeah, being able to drop the Shaymin EX and a Shaymin UL to shift what you need, then N-ing your opponent down to 1 or 2 cards before swinging for a lot. 110 HP is so tiny and just barely escapes Zekrom BW (without Pluspower) with Eviolite attached.

    Well, I just won an auction for Darkrai EX (yay me) so I've got my three and will be needing to get him into this list but, here's my deck as is.

    2 Darkrai EX
    1 Shaymin EX (stand in for Darkrai EX)
    2 Terrakion NVI
    1 Mewtwo EX
    3 Shaymin UL
    3 Smeargle CL

    4 Professor Juniper
    3 PONT
    2 N
    2 Random Receiver

    4 Junk Arm
    3 Dark Patch
    3 Pokemon Catcher
    3 Super Scoop Up
    3 Eviolite
    2 Dual Ball
    2 Ultra Ball
    2 Pluspower
    1 Max Potion
    1 Super Rod

    4 Prism Energy
    8 Basic Darkness Energy

    My concerns mainly lie in what numbers I should be running my Shaymins and Smeargles. I'm not sure whether 3-3 is a good number there or if I should cut back on either of them.

    SSU vs Max Potion is another thing. There are times where I wish I had a Max Potion when I couldn't flip the heads for SSU, but there are times where I really need to evacuate a team member off the active spot to try and get my attacker going without having to give up a prize. Which also makes me wonder if I could fit in a copy of Switch or even two.

    And then there's the issue of teching in Shaymin EX. Terrakion is definitely going to be a strong play and I feel like running a copy could very well be worth the risk. However, if I'm taking this deck through the Grinder at Worlds, I feel I should tech less and just try to make the deck as consistent as possible.

    Comments, critique, and suggestions are welcomed and appreciated.
  10. Many thanks Myles, that helps to understand the deck much more! I really hope you get to go to Worlds next year!
  11. Myles

    Myles Deck Crafter

    I'm glad my comments were of some use. And thanks for the kind words.

    Three smeargle is definitely more consistent, but I always found two to be enough.

    SSU/Max Potion/Switch is another ver good question. I've tried versions with 4 SSU, or ones with none (2 switch, 2 max potion). In the end I think 1 max potion, 1 switch and 2 SSU is a good amount. Being able to junk arm for a guaranteed switch/max potion is really the benefit of this - so you are less reliant on SSU. I was skeptical of using switch for a long time, but my friends finally convinced me to use it and I definitely don't regret it.

    I feel the same way about Shaymin EX - its a great tech, but hard to pull off well and useless in a lot of match ups. That said, it works nicely against mono-terrakion (maybe even giving you a non-autoloss) - and it is after all only one card (since you aren't etching separate energy).
  12. Charles_Barton

    Charles_Barton Your Reckoning

    Hey Myles, thanks for sharing your innovations with us; I built on your initial idea (prism) and incorporated it into my Darkrai Terrakion list and took it to T16 UK Nationals. The deck works, and rather well too!
    Myles likes this.
  13. lucarioAdventure1

    lucarioAdventure1 i swear on me mum

    Ah yes, I remember that how did you lose to Sami in top 16 anyways man? Either way hope to see you more on the forums :)
  14. Charles_Barton

    Charles_Barton Your Reckoning

    Hey Ollie, I lost the first game, won the second then my third game with Sami was a sudden death in which he got an unbeatable start over me...
    Haha thanks, will be on them more now I have the time (work kept me back so far)
    lucarioAdventure1 likes this.