Tier 1 Darkrai-EX, Terrakion NVI, Mewtwo-EX

Discussion in 'HS-on Archives' started by baby_mario, May 21, 2012.

  1. sammyc

    sammyc New Member

    Hi,
    This is my first time on the forum. Any suggestions on my list would be greatly appreciated. I don't seem to be getting my supporters out and my attacks are lacklustre with opponents eviolites.
    Thanks

    3 Darkrai ex
    2 Smeargle
    2 terrakion
    1 Shaymin
    1 Mewtwo ex

    4 Juniper
    3 PONT
    3 N
    4 dark patch
    3 SSU
    1 energy search
    3 catcher
    1 super rod
    2 random receiver
    2 switch
    4 dual ball
    2 plus power
    4 junk arm
    3 eviolite

    4 fighting
    8 dark
  2. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care Staff Member

    Hmmm . . . there's nothing that stands out as being THAT wrong with your decklist. 10 draw Supporters, 2 RR, 2 Smeargle should set you up fine. You even have a couple of Switch so you can Portrait a couple of times on T1.

    A few thoughts . . .

    1. Heavy Terrak means not running Special Dark. Consider cutting to 1 Terrak, 2 Fighting?

    2. Only 8 Dark and no Ultra Ball makes it hard to get a T1-2 Night Spear. Maybe the problem isn't the low damage output as much as the slow damage output?

    3. Consider droppong an Eviolite for a Dark Claw
  3. sammyc

    sammyc New Member

    Thank you for responding. I think i will drop 1 eviolite and super rod for a dark claw and an ultra ball
  4. Aklys

    Aklys Skyla = BCIF comp search = BCE

    Personally I like 3 fighting in place of another energy search. Keepin one super and go with a 2-2 split of dual and ultra. I'm playing a build similar to this and that has worked great for me. Although I still havnt decided if I like hammertime or this better ^.^;; as far as claw goes, I like it in the mirror to oppose eviolite. I myself use 2 potions to deny specific ko's fr an extra turn for the mirror and only 2 eviolite to force terra users to have the +power to take the ko
  5. sammyc

    sammyc New Member

    energy search has helped me in games and another one could come in handy. the 2-2 ball split seems kinda low but i will try it out. what situations do the potions help you out?
  6. Aklys

    Aklys Skyla = BCIF comp search = BCE

    The potions help in raikou matches, empoleon and in the mirror. In empoleon I don't bench more than 3-4 pkmn til I'm maybe using a shaymin. Then try to ssu ASAP. It makes the empoleon player 3hko darkrai or use terra. And terra isn't gonna e retaliating til you hopefully have ko'd 2 of their pokes. Playin catcher smart and being able to hit a penguin for 110 and a benched terra or penguin for 30. Then catcher for 2 ko's the next turn atk down 2 of their bigger threats at the same time. Granted eviolite does the same thing in essence, bein able to attach claw to nullify their eviolite has helped me run a raikou player out of Mac potions for kos on the dog and while taking out eels til they are out. But having to 3hko a raikou then max potion is irritating. As for the case of full fighting. Potion might as well be jarm fodder lol. Cause eviolite is gonna help force them have the plus power. Ad that's where special dark come sin handy. Cause up can put the extra 10 dmg so you can snipe for a ko with the same catcher tricks. As far as the mirror goes, most will attach eviolite to make it a 3hko. I attach claw to nullify cause potion helps where eviolite does here. I'll be happy to post a list if your interested. The potions have helped a lot in practice. Oh, also in Klingklang corners. Where groudon is concerned, tromps bench dmg is healed so giant claw doesn't get it's full dmg on a darkrai and takes the 40 to a 10 so they have to have a plus power or tromp again to make giant claw full power.
  7. sammyc

    sammyc New Member

    thanks for the details. i did see penguins at BR's but they didn't do too great. i don't think i will see as many at nationals but you never know. potion for my benched darkrai with no eviolite would be great against raikou if i can't OHKO him. i would love to see your list
  8. Aklys

    Aklys Skyla = BCIF comp search = BCE

    Pokemon 10

    3 darkrai EX DEX
    2 terrakion NVI
    1 shaymin UG
    2 smeargle CL
    1 Sableye DEX
    1 mewtwo EX NXD

    S/S/T 38

    4 juniper
    3 PONT
    2 sages training
    4 random reciever
    4 junk arm
    2 dual ball
    2 ultra ball
    2 potion
    2 ssu
    4 dark patch
    2 dark claw
    2 eviolite
    2 energy search
    2 plus power

    Energy 12

    3 fighting
    7 darkness basic
    2 special dark

    A few points I want to make. I love N as a card, but hate it in this current format. With random reciever there is nothing worse hittin N late game after you've take 3-5 prizes. Or early game and giving your opponent a fresh hand. This is all my option but I've done fine with out him. As for my replacement, I chose sages training. Sometimes, all you need to see is 5 fresh cards. You like what your hand is and don't want to lose a pont or juniper. If you hit the dark in grave, awesome. If not that's cool too. But sages has helped a lot. Another choice of my favorites is Sableye. Tbh, I really wanted to drop the mewtwo in favor of another. Call me crazy, but I believe Sableye is one of the best starters in the current meta. I have since before Esa revealed his hammer time. He can help reuse energy search, failed dual balls, or ssu. Or heck, more dark patch is never bad. I feel like potions damage math is good, and has helped me a lot in practice. But I can't help but to think it will come out before nats. Who nows. I went for a thick supporter line (counting random reciever) cause I feel people are playing smarter around smeargle plays. I still want to be fast with out relying on my opponent. As for my last point on my list, te special darks are mainly for the fighting match. Still being able to attach eviolite but set up enough dmg ai I can hit for a 100 and snipe for 30 and catcher ko both the next turn.

    I hope all my points make sense to someone besides myself. I like to think of myself as a good player. But everyone has their moments when they need help. Hope they all help and happy testing!
  9. fantasy_freak08

    fantasy_freak08 New Member

    no catchers in this?
  10. Aklys

    Aklys Skyla = BCIF comp search = BCE

    Ops wow, I was at work and did this on my phone not looking at my actual deck. I thought like that look like to many random reciever.
    -1 random reciever
    -1 smeargle

    +2 catcher

    Sorry bout that. I remember thinking to myself that I do want a 3rd catcher in here. In which case, my previous statement of potions coming out before nats might come up lol
  11. Myles

    Myles Deck Crafter

    Here is the list I ran at Australian Nationals this weekend. I came 8th in Swiss, then in top cut (top 8) I beat the first place seed (who went 6-0), before losing a very close match against a very similar deck - so my final placing was 4th. The tournament was won by quad-terrakion, which churned through the darkrai heavy topcut.

    Since I'm done with this list and almost certainly not going to worlds I'm going to post it here for everyone. I personally think its the best darkrai list you could run and it definitely worked really well for me. It has some unconventional choices, but I think they are not only key but all justified. I've spent countless hours testing all the ins and outs of this deck and (for my play style and meta at least) - I think its the best play.

    Pokemon (10)
    3 Darkrai EX
    2 Terrakion NV
    3 Shaymin UL
    2 Smeargle UD

    Supporters (10)
    4 PONT
    3 N
    3 Juniper

    Trainers (28)
    4 Junk Arm
    4 Dark Patch
    3 Catcher
    3 Plus Power
    3 Eviolite
    2 Random Receiver
    2 Ultra Ball
    2 Dual Ball
    2 SSU
    1 Switch
    1 Max Potion
    1 Super Rod

    Energy (12)
    4 Prism Energy
    8 Dark Energy

    Key changes / play style alterations/ points of interest:

    1. Attach prism each time you get it if possible for the turn, place it on darkrai or smeargle or whatever is active to use for free retreat. It can (and should) be used for consistent turn 2 night spears (making this variant faster than ones which run fighting energy). Since this gets prism on the field, you can easily shaymin it to terrakion and get quite a constant T3/4 land crush (in addition to night spears!). Don't just rely on retaliate, it can be played around - actively chase out land crush. Four prism which you play down each turn is IMO just as consistent as fighting with energy search, and its benefits outweigh those of fighting.

    2. Three shaymin is so so so under-rated, its amazing (especially in a prism variant) - its consistent when you have to prize/discard and shaymin is essential in both the early and late game. Try it and you'll love it.

    3. Eviolite is the best card in format, it beats dark claw hands down any day of the week. It makes terrakion a beast, and is a life saver on darkrai vs terrakion - as well as swinging any EX hitting war in your favour. Plus powers are likewise to deal with other player's eviolites on darkrai, or to

    4. Mewtwo EX does work in this variant and is worth including if you feel its important in your meta. I teched heavily against the mirror - where it isn't needed imo and you are better off focusing on the darkrais/terrakions, but if you expect more fighting its worth adding. Shaymin EX also works as a fighting counter in the deck since you run prism, and with high eviolite counts its a decent counter to fighting (or even Verizion EPO if you feel adventurous).

    5. 2Ultra/2Dual ball works really nicely, you want dual ball in your discard so you can junk arm for it later and not have to discard 4 cards. Ultra is good for discarding dark energy early on. Four in total is good as it makes getting out shaymin when you need it more consistent.

    6. Tornadus EX is both unnecessary and horribly inefficient in darkrai compared to other choices - I think its a seriously bad play.

    7. Shaymin UL has an attack called energy bloom, in this deck you can use it. Opponents don't see it coming and it can surprisingly win you games (healing crucial 30 hp at the right time, or doing 60 damage to terrakion, 80 with a plus power).

    8. I didn't include it, but saw a deck running Tropical Tidal Wave - if you can get your hands on it this card is definitely worth considering, its very very good in this format.
    ---

    Hope this was of use for some people and that you have fun and do well at Nats!
    Gelatin and Adam like this.
  12. Aklys

    Aklys Skyla = BCIF comp search = BCE

    Did you see much of lost remover or enhanced hammer at your nationals?
  13. Myles

    Myles Deck Crafter

    There was some, not a lot. Its a tough card to include because it only helps in some matchups, so its a big gamble to include more than 1-2 - crushing hammer was more common. The deck I played in Top 4 (who beat me) ran one enhanced hammer, but didn't draw into it in our games so it was a non-issue.

    Prism is more susceptible if your opponent does run it and this can be an issue, but usually its not the end of the world - once you see that they run it you can be more conservative with dropping it and save it for retaliates which you can drop from hand to do.

    But yeah, its a bit like durant and heatmor - heatmor beats durant, but its not worth running in your deck unless durant is really popular. Special energy just isn't that popular, so its not a great call to run lots of lost remover / enhanced hammer. Obviously it comes down to your meta though.
  14. Myles

    Myles Deck Crafter

    I forgot to mention, but personally I would advise against running sableye and smeargle in a list. You can only really use one at the start of a game - so better to focus on one and be consistent. Personally I think smeargle is much better, even if you run a heavy disruption deck - getting early night spears / set up / getting out of dead hands is just way better - and it doesn't block your attack. If you like sabeleye though, really go for it and I think it works - just don't go half-half imo.

    I think darkrai decks fall into the temptation of overteching, trying to beat each matchup. Don't fall into the jack of all trades master of none problem - stick to one core line and make is consistent and powerful.
    Aklys likes this.
  15. Aklys

    Aklys Skyla = BCIF comp search = BCE

    That makes sense. I find my new problem has been running out of bench space when trying to use the shaymin, smeargle AND Sableye. I think my little gem eye'd friend will just be better after the rotation for us. As for now, I do believe that the turbo version of the deck is much better than trying to be flippy with hammers.
  16. Ein

    Ein The Mega Man Master

    Why would anyone play enhanced hammer over LR? Granted in 99% of games this won't matter, there are ways to get specials out of the discard, especially for Steel decks. Such a small issue I know :D
  17. Aklys

    Aklys Skyla = BCIF comp search = BCE

    It's not hammer time with out all the hammers xD
  18. Myles

    Myles Deck Crafter

    Ever since Esa's article people have some superstitious notion that enhanced hammer brings better luck. Effectively you're never going to regret it, so people do it. I agree with you though.
  19. MistaMalice

    MistaMalice Member

    When running Mewtwo.. Did you make any cuts for DCE?
  20. Myles

    Myles Deck Crafter

    It depends on how you want to run mewtwo. As a one off tech, its not entirely nessecary - you need 7 energies between you and a terrakion to KO it (or 6 and a plus power) +1 for evolite. Against other mewtwos you only need 5 between you (or 4 and a plus power) - these numbers are usually pretty easy to get to - DCE helps but you'd have to cut something else which is hard. You can't cut basic dark (needed for consistency) - so its either prism or a trainer card.

    However if you go heavy mewtwo (making your deck more of Darkrai/Mewtwo with terrakion rather than the other way around) I'd add 2 DCE if possible, as it does help with acceleration.

    I think you'd need to test out what works for you, personally I found mewtwo to be hard because I couldn't get it when I wanted it and would end up starting with it at bad times.