Tier 2 CMT - Celebi Prime, Mewtwo-EX, Tornadus EP

Discussion in 'HS-on Archives' started by baby_mario, May 10, 2012.

  1. ussgordoncaptain

    ussgordoncaptain Skeptical of new cards

    A better Tech is Super scoop up. SSU + Celebi allows for fast recovery of hit points. At the cost of being a coin flip and losing your energy drops on the pokemon. I ask what pokemon lines do you guys typically run? I useally run
    4 Celebi
    3 Mewtwo EX
    2 Tornadus EX
    1 Shaymin UL
    1 smeargle UL
    1 Regigas EX
  2. Tonu

    Tonu Member

    I played this deck at out Nationals yesterday. This was my decklist:

    3 Celebi
    1 Mewtwo ex
    2 Tornadus
    1 Tornadus ex
    2 Terrakion
    1 Heatmor
    = 10

    7 Grass
    4 Fighting
    4 DCE
    = 15

    4 PONT
    4 Juniper

    3 Skyarrow Bridge
    3 Random Receiver
    4 Dual Ball
    1 PlusPower
    2 Eviolite
    4 Junk Arm
    4 Catcher
    1 Energy Retriever
    2 Revive
    3 Switch
    = 35

    only 1 Mewtwo -> Less Mewtwo starts. I had more spare Mewtwos to my friends at Nationals. I also played two Revives which gives me more flexibility. Finally, no one want's to start the Mewtwo war against a CMT since they usually runs 2-3 Mewtwos.

    2 Terrakions, 4 Fighting, 1 Energy Retriaval -> This is why most of the people won't get the Terrakion work on the CMT. They play like 1 Terrakion, 2 Fighting at their lists and then complain that they won't draw it. People also complains about Terrakion being bad at starts. This is one of the reasons why the deck should run a lot of Switches. Being able to make T1 two Energy Terrakion in certain matches is really good start, especially against Zekrom or Zoroark or to KO certain basics.

    Heatmor -> lol. The deck is so bad against a Durant. This one fellow turns the ~30-70 match up to like 90-10 matchup. If it's priced, you need to get OHKOes/2HKOes with Tornadoses and hope to draw that Heatmor fast enough. If there's like 4-5 turns you cannot pull a KO on a Pokémon, theres a chance that you will lose the game.

    Only 8 supporters and 3 Random Receivers, no N's -> I have found out that the N's ruins my games more than it helps out. When I play a Random Receiver, I know for sure I can draw a 6 or 7 cards hand. Low amount of supporters ruins opponents Smeargle strategies more than often. During the tournament, my opponent's Portraited me like 6 times during the tournament and only managed to draw like 1 PONT and 1 Juniper (which discarded shaymin and Shaymin ex at the mirror). Without the N's, the opponent cannot portrait your N's. I would have liked to play the 4th Random Receiver but decided to go for Heatmor instead.

    The games I played:
    Groudon ex/Terrakion tech - I donked a lone Terrakion on Turn 3 with my Tornadus.
    QuadEntei (which played 4-2) - He mulligans 8 times, I got Turn 2 Mewtwo with 7 Energies. I steamroll'd over both of his Enteis in 4 Turns.
    Zoroak - I managed to get two Eviolite Terrakions play before his setup was complete. After having few prizes left, I had also a loaded Tornadus ex at my bench. Stemroll'd on 0-3 prizes.
    Eelektrik/Mewtwo - I play Turn 1 PONT and didn't draw another supporter until my lat turn. I missed a Revive or Catcher+Pluspower which would have granted me victory from this battle. My first loss on 2-0 prizes.
    CMT mirror - I managed to sweep 3 prizes with my Tornadus ex before it gets KO'd. Catchered a Celebi for my 4th prize. I managed to pull two Celebi's powers and turn Energy on my Mewtwo plus a catcher to win the game on 0-2 prizes.
    Darkrai/Terrakion/Plume/Mismagius - My friend played this and it's one of the toughest matchups the deck has. I got dual double Tails on Dual Balls and he got Turn 3 Plume in play. He started the game and I only managed to get 1 prize lead. Juniper didn't grant me anything good except a energy or two. I lost the game in about 7 turns with 5-1 prizes.

    I think I saw like 4 players playing CMT and I think that each of those played 4-2 or better. One CMT managed get to top-8 where it lost to my friends Darkrai/Terrakion/Plume/Mismagius deck. IMO the deck definitely is better than Tier 2 deck. I would put it at Tier 1 myself.
  3. lucarioAdventure1

    lucarioAdventure1 i swear on me mum

    Surprised this thread hasn't been getting anymore love after the decks awesome performance last week tbh, well post your updated lists here
  4. beboppokedad

    beboppokedad Well-Known Member

    it seems there was a lot of skepticism that terrakion would ruin consistency, but maybe that's not true. the deck is adjusting away from flat Mewtwo and more towards a balance between the "3Ts", which seemingly improves options and avoids a brutal succession of Mewtwo-EX 2x prize card KOs.

    ... just my ramblings. yet, this deck does lack healing and celebis are deutsche ducks sitting helplessly in the water to be speared by nacht!

    thanks for the post and i have to read more about the decks you faced, Tonu
  5. lucarioAdventure1

    lucarioAdventure1 i swear on me mum

    Here's a list I have been using (props to Frederico Zarfi for giving me the basis of the list)

    3 Celebi Prime TM
    2 Mewtwo EX
    2 Tornadus EX
    1 Regigigas EX
    2 Terrakion NVI
    1 Tornadus EP
    2 Smeargle UD
    1 Shaymin UL

    4 Professor Juniper
    4 PONT
    2 N

    4 Dual Ball
    4 Junk Arm
    3 Pokemon Catcher
    2 Eviolite
    2 PlusPower
    2 Random Reciever
    2 Switch
    1 Energy Retrieval
    1 Energy Search

    3 Skyarrow Bridge

    5 Grass
    3 Fighting
    4 DCE

    Leave any suggestions below, all comments are appreciated!
    beboppokedad likes this.
  6. beboppokedad

    beboppokedad Well-Known Member

    looks good, seems main diff. b/n yours and Tonu's is going with smeargles, and also trusting regigigas
  7. lucarioAdventure1

    lucarioAdventure1 i swear on me mum

    Smeargle is too good not to play tbh and Regigigas is to have the edge vs. eels
  8. ussgordoncaptain

    ussgordoncaptain Skeptical of new cards

    I'm loving the Terrakions now, Terrakion just gives such a large jump in power for a high price. CMTerrakion is a completely different deck than "normal" CMT. It has more comeback pontential at the cost of having a weaker early game plan.

    Right now my pokemon line is
    4 Celebi Prime
    2 Terrakion NVI
    3 Mewtwo EX
    1 Tornadus EPO
    1 Tornadus EX
    1 Smeargle UL
    1 Shaymin UL
    T/S/S changes to much to be considered stable but generally
    9-10 supporters
    4 Random receiver
    2-3 Skyarrow
    Bunch of gas trainers
    Energy
    4 DCE
    4 Fighting energy
    6 Grass energy
  9. lucarioAdventure1

    lucarioAdventure1 i swear on me mum

    You really don't need 4 fighting with Terrakion you can easily get away with 3 fighting + 1 energy search
  10. indercarnive

    indercarnive Well-Known Member

    energy search rocks a CMT with terrakion as a main attacker. love it sooo much. and to see the look on my opponents face as they say "i just lost to a guy runnning energy search!" makes everything worth it.
    also is everyone forgetting shaymin EX. if your opponent takes 2 prizes then shaymin OHKOs terrakions. not to mention a late game to kill an EX for the last 2 prizes is pretty amazing to hve my opponent so sure of victory but then have it get away form em.
  11. ussgordoncaptain

    ussgordoncaptain Skeptical of new cards

    Meaningless nitpicks
    Cut 1 Skyarrow for 1 Switch Since most decks already play skyarrow having an additional switch is a more useful ability.

    Cut 1 Smeargle for 1 Celebi Prime, Lets get real here, if your opponent is wasting time Koing smeargle they aren't going to win.
    Either cut Regigigas or cut Terrakion, for Additional Pokemon Catcher/super scoop up Regigigas and Terrakion compete for the same spot in the deck. They are both pokemon that help against Darkai and Zeels. however both require you to build the deck around them. If you play Regigigas EX you need to play 3 Eviolite, and 2 Super scoop up. While if you play Terrakion you need to have the Energy search + Fighting energy.
  12. Tonu

    Tonu Member

    To be honest, I don't think that running 4th Celebi is vital for the deck. By running 4, you have a better chance to get at least one of those at the start. If running 3 Celebis, your odds to start with a Celebi drops from a 68,46% to 60,05% which is a 8,41% worse (~1:12) but you save one extra slot to make the deck more consistent. Because the deck runs Tornadus ex(s) starting with a Celebi aren't as important as some people may think. Also, T1 Dual Ball and switches can cover up a "bad" starter. There's a certain matches where starting with a Celebi can be risky (Fire Pokémon+PlusPowers, mirror, against Tornadus ex, etc). I am personally suggesting players to use only 3 Celebis. IMO worst thing about running 3 Celebis is to have a 2,45% chance (1:41) to have 2 Celebis at prized.

    I have to admit that I haven't tested Energy Search at this deck at all. Yet still I think that having an Energy Retriaval is always better option. Usually at the begin of the game you can easily draw the energy you're looking for. During the mid/end game there's some problems to acquire one Grass or Fighting Energy. Usually when I draw this Energy fetching tech card, there's plenty of Energy on my discard pile. Discarding an Energy with a Juniper or Junk Arm doesn't hurt that much when you have an option to get the energy from your Discard Pile to back to your hand or deck. I would rather play one extra Grass or Fighting Energy than one Energy Search. 7 Grass and 3-4 Fighting has seemed good amount of Energy to play for me at least. You often get a Grass or two at the begin of the game and draw a Fighting energy relatively easily during the mid game.

    About the Pokémon EXs, I think that having 2 Mewtwo exs and 2 Tornadus exs would be the smartest play. I have never really liked about the Regigigas ex since it has a Fighting Weakness and gets easily KO'd by Terrakion in this format. If deck runs 2-3 Tornadus exs, I think that running 3 SkyArrows are quite vital to maintain good chances of getting T1 SkyArrow in play so you will have better chances to hit T1 60 (or 100) damage.

    Smeargle is a good card to give the deck a boost in case of bad supportless starts. Fitting one in shouldn't be too hard. I just made a decicion to not spend one slot by running one. if I would had run one Smeargle, I think I would have easily won the other game which I lost.

    Lastly, I'm still encouraging people to test out by playing only Junipers and PONTS with 4 Random Receiver. Having a guaranteed 6-7 card draw by Random Receiver is just way too awesome. Because of Terrakions, making a comeback from a bad start is a lot easier. By not dropping end game Celebies down, the opponent will also have hard time finding an opportunies to perform OHKOes. When I played N's, they seemed to hurt me more than help.

    These are my thoughts.
  13. arcanyx

    arcanyx The #1 Procrastinator

    My girlfriend will be using CMT with Terrakion for Nats this weekend. What would be the ideal energy lines for it? Considering she runs two Terras/Mewtwo/TornadusEX each.
  14. Tonu

    Tonu Member

    2-2-2 line should be good choice IMO. Depending about how much you have space left in the deck, 1-2 Tornadus EP can be played as well. Build a list and figure out what's needed and what's not. I wish you and your gf good luck for upcoming Nationals. :)
  15. arcanyx

    arcanyx The #1 Procrastinator

    Thanks Tonu, we'll give it our best shot. :)

    We're still tweaking our lists at the moment, especially cmt. Terrakion our top priority to fit in.
  16. indercarnive

    indercarnive Well-Known Member

    i am running it for nats. i love it. won me 2 Battle roads and a second place in another one. t2 land crushes swoop almost anything. 2 terrakion, 2 mewtwo, 1 tornadus EX. 1 revive, 1 rod, 1 energy retreival, 2 energy search.

    I ran energy search BEFORE it was cool :( .i got mocked, And then i went 5-0 :)
  17. ussgordoncaptain

    ussgordoncaptain Skeptical of new cards

    I would recomend cutting the revive and super rod for a second tornadus EX and 1 more SSU/Unknown CURE. Obviously it's personal preference but I don't think that recovery is very good in CMT. Unkown CURE breaks VVV, while SSU is good in every other matchup. Tornadus EX is strong at being an awesome starter obviously.
  18. indercarnive

    indercarnive Well-Known Member

    who is playing VVV? also IMO terrakion is the main attacker for my build. t2 land crush literally crushes almost anything in the format. rod is for energy and shaymin UL. revive is nice as a revive terrakion, energy retreival for fighting/grass. manual/ forest breath. retreat, retailiate for knockout on darkrai is insane.
  19. ussgordoncaptain

    ussgordoncaptain Skeptical of new cards

    Perhaps this explains how much random crap my testing partners come up with. I really still dislike with a passion recovery in this format. EX pokemon remove most of the need for recovery entirely. You almost always have enough attackers in a match, sure sometimes it is better to have certain attackers but generally any attacker would do. Meanwhile the spots you fill with revive and Super rod are precious. How many SSU do you run? Eviolite? what is the combined count of your supporters and Random receiver? I personally think that recovery cuts into slots that are better filled with the three cards above
  20. airhawk06

    airhawk06 Active Member

    I still love this deck and think it has a great shot to perform well at any Nats, including US Nats. Here's the list I've been tinkering around with.

    4 Celebi
    2 M2EX
    1 Tornadus EX
    1 Regigias EX
    1 Shaymin EX
    1 Terrakion
    1 Shaymin
    1 Smeargle

    4 Juniper
    3 PONT
    2 N
    2 RR

    4 Junk Arm
    4 Catcher
    3 Dual Ball
    3 Switch
    2 PP
    2 Eviolite
    2 Energy Search
    1 Super Rod
    1 Energy Retrieval

    2 SAB

    4 DCE
    6 Grass
    3 Fighting