Tier 2 CMT - Celebi Prime, Mewtwo-EX, Tornadus EP

Discussion in 'HS-on Archives' started by baby_mario, May 10, 2012.

  1. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care Staff Member

    Please put any discussion/lists you want fixed in here, thank you.

    The decklist for this is pretty well established, so I won't post one right now. If you need a guide to the deck and a list to get started, see this recent front page article

    Sample List

    4 Celebi Prime
    3 Mewtwo-EX
    2 Tornadus-EX
    1 Tornadus EPO
    1 Shaymin-EX/Regigigas-EX
    1 Smeargle UD/CL
    1 Shaymin
    =13

    4 Prof Juniper
    4 Prof Oak's New Theory
    3 N
    4 Dual Ball
    4 Junk Arm
    3 Pokemon Catcher
    2 Switch
    2 PlusPower
    2 Eviolite
    2 Random Receiver
    1 Super Rod
    3 Skyarrow Bridge
    =34

    4 DCE
    9 Grass
    =13
  2. beboppokedad

    beboppokedad Well-Known Member

    wow, zero comments so far... i guess that tells you how much people are excited about this deck anymore....

    it's almost like.... "time to move on?"
  3. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    I think that it should run 3. You can put Revive and such in there if you want as well (even though 3 Mewtwos is game, you can have one prized or just can't pull it out).

    I think that 2 normal Tornadus and 1 EX should be good, because your already giving them Mewtwo EXs to try and kill, why add too many more EXs?

    Regigigas EX. He is really good.

    I think that this deck can be tier 1, but if there is an uprising of Empoleon... It may just sit at T2 for a while.

    I'm not a big fan of this deck, but it is fun to play and wins a lot of games. I just hate it when a turn takes like 2 minutes or more with the opponent...
  4. beboppokedad

    beboppokedad Well-Known Member

    ... everyone's afraid of empoleon it seems.
  5. cabd

    cabd Taking over for Tamoo as the girly looking mod. Staff Member

    Being super weak (play not type) to a hyped deck that is cheap and easy to invest in going into a tournament that sees a lot of new players (battle roads) is never a plus.
  6. Rowan

    Rowan Rum Pirate

    I thought this was a Teir 1 deck? was it and it dropped down? or is it alwasy been Teir 2?
  7. wiki188

    wiki188 Mrlightning

    so i saw someone use prism energy in their build online to use celebi's attack worth it? probably not
  8. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care Staff Member

    It was definitely a tier 1 deck. It may still be a tier 1 deck, but the general view is that it is now inferior to Zeels and Dark. The tier button isn't set in stone. If CMT does well at BRs, I'll change it.

    I can't think of many decks that would be bothered much by Celebi's attack. Zoroark will just attack with Darkrai, and Empo would use Terrakion.

    Maybe it was more so that they could use Mewtwo's Psydrive, or perhaps they had a tech Terrakion?
  9. beboppokedad

    beboppokedad Well-Known Member

    it's taken a hit recently with the dark decks (zoroark , darkrai-ex, etc.) in supposed ascendance (well, almost assuredly)
  10. Martin

    Martin Member

    I think this is still a tier 1 deck.
    I cant see why a dark deck would push this to the second tier, actually. And no, resistance doesnt cut it, its just one more energy for mewtwo, not that big a deal.
    It will have to be played more strightforward, with a really fast approach, otherwise i dont think it will be able to compete with zeels and darkrai.
    But even so, i dont see darkrai palying mewtwos himself, so why not just lead with mewtwo nutil he can OHKO darkrais? Its not like this deck is slower, and the addition of tornadus EX is really good here.
    Well, just my opinion, anyways.
  11. Tapin

    Tapin Typical Pokédad

    Except that "one more energy" is a big deal. That's one turn slower, which gives Darkrai extra time to snipe Celebis for extra prizes.

    I'm not willing to argue tier status for any deck without tournament results to back me up, but... it's going to be an interesting few weeks for the metagame in general and CMT in particular.
  12. 1. There needs to be 10-11 Energy total between Darkrai and Mewtwo, which is difficult to say the least

    2. Darkrai should be playing Mewtwo.
  13. wiki188

    wiki188 Mrlightning

    personally when facing mewtwo with a darkrai and friends deck id catcher something kill it 3 on mewtwo then when darkrai dies promote zororark and brutal bash ko on mewtwo
  14. Martin

    Martin Member

    Actually IMO no, darkrai shouldnt be playing mewtwo. Heres is why i think that:

    1) Darkrai has dark type only enercy accel. Even with things like energy switch and shaymin, its still not easy to power up a mewtwo in a single turn. And no, DCE doesnt work well in the deck, unless you run it with tornadus ex too. And even then, just 4 DCE doesnt seem to be enough.

    2) The main strength of darkrai IMO, is thats its really hard to OHKO. That makes KOing 3 darkrais for a game quite difficult for anything not fighting-type.
    If you include mewtwo in that deck, you are actually putting a pokemon that is a glass-cannon.
    Sure, he is powerful, but its also quite easy to OHKO. So there goes the hard-to-kill strategy, and now the opponent only needs to KO 2, or even just 1 darkrai to win. And even by adding mewtwos, i severely doubt you can win an all out mewtwo war against zeels, let alone CMT, for reasons stated in 1.

    3) I have tested the match up a lot, since i tought darkrai ate CMT for breakfast, but getting 8-9 energy on mewtwo when there is no opposing mewtwo is a lot easier than expected. Once that is done, no darkrai can stop mewtwo, and a singleton shaymin moving energies is usually enough to win games.
    If the darkrai decides to stop your mewtwo with their own, then i will gadly get into a mewtwo exchange than im more than likely to win for reasons in 1 and 2.

    Of course, im not trying to sound like i know it all or anything, this is just things i learned from my testing agaisnt different variants of darkrai decks.
  15. If you get 8-9 Energy on a Mewtwo to kill a Darkrai, and I get 2 Energy on a Mewtwo, then you are essentially out of Energy.

    And Darkrai 2 shots Mewtwo, so how are you getting that much Energy on in the first place?

    Also, the only thing that OHKOs Mewtwo are other Mewtwos, and you should not be starting the Mewtwo war.

    It's not hard to win the Mewtwo war anyway.
  16. Martin

    Martin Member

    Well, unless you are playing 3 mewtwo, you are not going to win that exchange anyways, so if you wanna kill one mewtwo, fine by me, I just revenge and get 2 easy prizes, one less darkrai i need to kill.
    And if you are playing 3 mewtwos, how are you gonna get 2 energy on each without energy accel? not to mention the pluspowers needed.
    By 9 energy, i didnt mean literally 9 energy, 4 grass and 2 DCE do the trick. I dont think any CMT is gonna be energyless after that.

    And to answer the other point, with difference in speed, thats how. CMT can easily get 3 energy on T1, then 2 more on T2 (or 3 with another DCE, but unlikely), and i have yet to see a darkrai that can attack faster than T2. You hit a bit on T1 (say 40~60), then again on T2 (now a 100 seems more realistic including opponent´s energies) and thats that, no more darkrai.
    No matter how good the list, it still will take at least one more turn to recharge the next darkrai, and by then i can get 2 more energy in play.

    There are certain tricks to deal with dark patch too, since it only attaches to the bench, catcher plays are quite useful, even if just to force darkrai to retreat to use dark patch.
    And then, there´s shaymin moving all energy to an undamaged mewtwo to hit again. Sure you can kill the energyless one, but then i still get the OHKO on darkrai.
  17. Actually, the right build of speed Darkrai can get the T1 Night Spear fairly regularly, around 60% of the time I've heard.
    And Darkrai/Weavile lists can discard precious DCEs/draw supporters.

    And the damage from Darkrai's Night Spear either means a DCE/Mewtwo or an Energy Switch/manual attachment Mewtwo a quick revenge kill.

    They can also target your Celebis, meaning if Darkrai attacks T2 it kills 2 Celebi on T3, which also means less Energy on your Mewtwos, which also means Darkrai lives longer.
  18. Vysekun

    Vysekun The Ninetales and the Grapes Staff Member

    So, has people's opinions shifted on this deck?
  19. QuarterTurn

    QuarterTurn Front Page Contributor

    This is still the fastest deck in the format. The early pressure and donking potential can win games for this deck more than any other. It can also win Mewtwo wars more consistently than any other deck, and is the deck best equipped to use Mewtwo in general.
    Yeah, it has problems, like any deck, but with the right start, it's a force to be reckoned with. I think it's tier 1.
    lufan131 likes this.
  20. lufan131

    lufan131 Ed-ward? Big-bro-ther?

    A good tech in cmt is Darkrai/Cresselia legend.