Cinncino Decklist

Discussion in 'Deck Help & Development' started by pjbolin, Jun 13, 2011.

  1. pjbolin

    pjbolin Member

    4-4 Cinncino
    3-3 Zoroark
    4 Cleffa
    2 Bouffalant
    1 Tyrogue

    4 Pokemon Collector
    4 Pokemon Communication
    4 Super Scoop-Up
    2 Seeker
    2 Dual Ball
    2 Plus Power
    2 PONT

    4 Double Colorless Energy
    3 Special Dark Energy
    3 Rescue Energy

    Still have 9 slots to fill -,- considering:

    4 Judge
    1-2 Lost Remover?

    Considered a 2-2 Swanna line w/ 2? Rainbow energy.....as a potential donphan counter.
    If not ^ then possibly 2-2 Umbreon line and go to 4 special darks...
    Ugh, and if not ^ or ^^ then maybe 2-2-2 Jumpluff -.-
    Orrrrr maybe 2-2 Yanmega, drop the PONT for Copycats.....

    4 Pokemon Reversal
    1-2 Interviewer's Question
    Additional 2 Plus Power

    Just like to add..deck building can be stressing lol

    Edit: Just became aware that I am a moron and spelled the name of the key pokemon wrong...fml
  2. offendo

    offendo New Member

    I was thinking to max out plus power. You definatly need more to get the OHKOs on 110 or 120 HP pokemon. You also should put in some
    pokemon reversals. They can hep kill those phanpys and machokes early in the game.
  3. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care Staff Member

    3-4 PlusPower
    3-4 Reversal (you need to kill key Pokemon before they evolve)
    3-4 Junk Arm
    2 Switch

    Take out the SSU

    Cut the Zoroark to 2-2

    Consider Juniper over PONT
  4. pjbolin

    pjbolin Member

    Are the Junk arms REALLY necessary, they just seem to be missing the luster.... i can see the switch > ssu, and im planning the 3-3 zoroark line so i have a strong backup line.

    And I also think PONT is > Juniper is every situation other than a topdeck.
  5. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care Staff Member

    The Junk Arms are incredibly useful. Being able to recycle PP is amazing, especially with the new ruling. They also give you more chances to hit heads on Reversal if that's what you need.
    pjbolin likes this.
  6. I use black belts for cincinno. They ohko everything that is threatening, including donphan. I would consider defender to keep cincinno alive, but everything that is a threat still does 120 or more (except for blastoise).
  7. draconash

    draconash Member

    (I know my opinion probably doesn't matter much, but...) Baby Mario is definitely right about this. 4 Junk Arm is a must in any speed deck, as are 3-4 Pluspower and 3-4 Reversal. I have tested quite a bit with Speed Decks (mainly Cinccino and Zoroark) and found that 4 Pluspower, Reversal, and especially Junk Arm are a must. Reversal is a required 4-of to me, because killing basics before they evolve is incredibly important against any Stage 2 deck.

    Juniper is a much stronger play here than PONT, because it nets you another card and can burn ones you don't need, too. In a speed deck, you should aim to run 6-10 draw Supporters, whereas your list only has 2. This seriously limits the "Speed" aspect of your deck, and dropping the SSU's (Everything in your deck will die in one hit mid to late game, the point where SSU would actually serve a purpose) for draw Supporters should yield nothing but positive results.

    3-3 Zoroark isn't entirely necessary, and one of my first cuts was dropping to 2-2, which yielded mostly positive results.

    And lastly, Black Belts act against the purpose of a speed deck, because a speed deck aims to take as big of a lead early game as possible, and Black Belt can only be used if you're behind on prizes, effectively negating any advantage your deck would have over the rest of the field.

    Also, out of all your anti-Donphan options, Pluff is the least effective because it is a stage two, cannot oneshot a Donphan without Pluspower(this, however, is the least of your worries if you run 4 Pluspower and Junk Arm), has low HP, and requires a new type of energy to be put into the deck, which, unless you run several (4ish or more), can be very difficult to get when you need them.

    Yanmega is alright, but he simply doesn't have the raw power to combat a Donphan Prime, and Machamp can present a bigger problem than Donphan because it can OHKO a Yanmega Prime.

    Swanna is interesting, and may work, but I've never tested with it. I would, however, advise the inclusion of more than two Rainbows, as such a low count can be very hard to hit when you need it. You could actually opt to add waters since your deck functions perfectly on any type of energy, and this would require the Donphan player to either drop a Pluspower or accept a 3HKO. If you still decide to run Rainbows, which isn't at all a bad choice, you should try and fit in a number like 3 or 4 to remain consistent.

    Umbreon works, I've used it, and it's usually pretty hard for them to play around, having to use Machop, Machoke, or Reversals if they run them. If you use it carefully, it can be a serious gambit when against DonChamp or a deck that relies on Donphan in general, but it doesn't necessarily give you the auto-win, so you definitely have to play cautiously. Just don't force yourself to rely solely on Umbreon for anything your opponent throws at you, and you should be fine.

    Unlisted, but Crobat Prime worked out alright in my testing (but I wasn't able to prefect the consistency aspect) because Severe Poison really hurts Donphan, and it has a nice 130 HP with Fighting resistance, so even Machamp can have a hard time OHKO'ing it.

    With whatever you run for a Phan counter, you need to make sure to test it before you make a permanent change.

    The purpose of this actually wasn't to talk about Donphan counters, more to iterate how vitally important 4 Junk Arm and high counts of Reversal and Pluspower are, but oh well, hopefully I still got my point across.

    Finally (hopefully), the changes I'd advise:

    - 1-1 Zoroark
    - 4 SSU
    - 2 Seeker
    - 1 Cleffa (in all of my testing, 4 Cleffa has never been any more benficial than 2 or 3)
    - 2/4 Collector (a pretty controversial change, but Dual Ball is the faster, weaker Collector, and definitely works better in speed decks)
    - 2 Bouffalant (He kills RDL, but so do both Zoroark AND Cinccino)

    + 2 Dual Ball
    + 4 Professor Juniper
    + 2 Pluspower
    + 4 Pokemon Reversal
    + 4 Junk Arm
    + 2 PONT
    + 2-2 Stage 1 Donphan counter/2-2-2 Stage 2 Donphan counter (Depending on how many collectors you drop)

    Sorry this post is so long, but I've clocked upwards of 40 games with speed decks, and I enjoy sharing my results.
  8. pjbolin

    pjbolin Member

    I do believe that Ill give you the benefit of the doubt at least, I will take your advice to heart and give it a few runs play testing local people. Very intelligent arguments.
  9. Your analysis is awesome. My question is what important ko's do you get by including plus powers? Doesn't everything in our format now either take 100 or 130 to ohko? It would take 2 plus powers, a junk arm, and 2 useless cards to accomplish that. 5 cards to add 30 damage is not worth it. You might as well add kingra prime to counter donphan and spread damage.
  10. pjbolin

    pjbolin Member

    Well u have to think at pluspower in the light of things not JUST having 110 hp, thing with like 90 and I only have 4 bench. And also for zoroark to 1 hit resh/zek... And you just run that many for consistency
  11. draconash

    draconash Member

    You're not aiming to kill a specific Pokemon with Pluspower, you're aiming to be able to get more OHKO's overall. also, with 4 Pluspower and 4 Junk Arm, achieving double, triple, and even quadruple Pluspower drops isn't all that difficult. I've dropped 5 Pluspowers in one turn by using Juniper and Junk Arm with 3 Pluspowers. Pluspower is just too useful in so many situations, not simply to kill the 130+ HP Pokemon. Also, I assume you were referring to Reshiram and Zekrom when you said 130. If you can reversal up benched Tepigs and Pignites before they evolve (usually a very easy task), it is extremely difficult for ReshiBoar to make an effective effort to KO your Pokemon. And when Zekrom has to use Bolt Strike to kill anything, the ease of getting a revenge KO makes the matchup laughable.
  12. That is true, but plus powers will not help get the ko's on unevolved pokemon. I would rather save my junk arms for pokemon reversal. I originally thought this deck would need plus powers because wigglytuff used them. I haven't tested with them. I figured they would hurt consistency.
  13. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care Staff Member

    Of course PP helps you get KOs on unevolved Pokemon.

    Early in the game, you may not have a full bench. Say you only have 2 Pokemon Benched and a Cinccino out by turn 2 (don't say this never happens) . . . 2 PP gets you the KO on a Tepig, and 1 will let you one shot a Magnemite.
  14. draconash

    draconash Member

    Absolutely true. It isn't exactly common, but having 2 or 3 basics on your bench at the end of turn 2 definitely happens.

    This sentence alone nullified your argument. Don't say things like "but plus powers will not help get the ko's on unevolved pokemon." if you haven't even tested with them.
  15. So you are going to pull 2 plus power in one turn but not one of the 4 pokemon collector? I have tons of testing without plus power. I'm afraid adding plus powers (when I've never been in a situation where I needed them) will ruin the consistency. I would like someone to confirm that they do help (so I don't have to waste time losing games testing them), but if a list including them fails to have 5 benched pokemon on turn 2 then that proves that they wreck consistency.
  16. poxstep

    poxstep Underground Member

    Plus Powers are crucial imo, just like wigglytuff days back then.

    anyway here is my cincinno deck list, and I think it's pretty consistent so far..

    3 Cleffa
    4 Mincinno
    4 Cincinno
    2 Zorua
    2 Zoroark
    2 Eevee
    2 Umbreon Undaunted
    1 Tyrogue
    1 Bouffalant

    4 DCE
    3 Special Dark Energy
    3 Rescue

    4 Juniper
    4 Pokemon Reversal
    4 Plus Power
    4 Junk Arm
    4 Pokemon Communication
    3 Pokemon Collector
    2 Prof. Oak New Theory
    2 Seeker
    2 Dual Ball

    ----

    i have mixed feelings about adding a SSU :|
  17. jkwarrior

    jkwarrior New Member

    Why bouffalant when you have a 4/4 cinccino?
  18. pjbolin

    pjbolin Member

    bouffalant is good for the revenge KO, easy 90dmg from a DCE, also gota have that basic count up there!