Aromatisse/M Kangaskhan EX

Discussion in 'Competitive Deck Discussion' started by Floral, May 10, 2014.

  1. Chaostamer

    Chaostamer Active Member Staff Member

    Exactly my point. Genesect has proven itself able to run a healthy LaserBank line and still be fairly consistent, and the threat of M Kangaskhan is big motivation to go back to that play, provided the deck catches on more.
  2. CyrusTyler

    CyrusTyler Skill Level: Average Plebian

    I kind of hope that Charizard and Kanga become rogue so this doesn't happen. The last thing I need is something killing off my hard-earned Mega with a timely Red Signal and G Booster.
  3. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    They will always be rouge until they win a tournament that is not League Challenges. That's just the way the community works pretty much.
  4. KPiplup

    KPiplup An Imposter Staff Member

    The issue this time around is that there ARE no tournaments before Nationals...
  5. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    We'll just have to wait to see if this wins Nationals then.........
  6. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care Staff Member

    That's a very strange definition of 'rogue'. Some decks are obvious archetypes right from the start. If they don't win they become failed archetypes and/or rarely played archetypes.

    I don't think Charizard or Aromatisse/Kangaskhan are going to have much of an element of surprise. People can reasonably expect to see them in tournaments, and are fully aware of them. So personally I wouldn't ever class them as being 'rogue'.
  7. Elbow

    Elbow Klinklang-arang

    Because by now most people know now that Charizard and Kangaskhan can both hit 180 damage with flips, muscle band, and laser, they can prepare their match-up better.
    At first Aromatisse was an mediocre archetype, but once people started moving away from the straight Fairy build and more of the Techy builds with Plasma and Klinklang we saw much more potential for him.
    IMHO, this deck is probably the best deck that involves a mega. While it does rely on flips to work, with Victini and only needing 3 energy (2 w/ DCE) it is much better then the 300 damage, 5 energy needing (4 w/DCE), and 50 damage recoiling (or discarding 5 cards from your deck) from a Mega Charizard X/Y.
    I'd still call it a rouge as the only place it has really 'won' was at the Japanese Mega Lizardon Battle...but the deck was really weird and had Landorus EX and Qwilfish in it for early damage spread.
  8. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care Staff Member

    I don't get this definition of rogue as 'a deck which hasn't won a major tournament yet'.

    That would mean every new archetype was 'rogue' on release, even if it was the most mind-numbingly obvious deck ever (Blastoise/Keldeo? TDK? Virizion/Genesect?).

    Surely the word has to have a more significant meaning than that? How about 'a deck that uses uncommon or unexpected cards and strategies in order to compete with established decks'? Everyone and their mum knows about Aromatisse/Khan and Charizard: they are new archetypes, no-one is going to be surprised by their innovative strategy.

    I would happily call a version that played Landy and Qwilfish 'rogue', but not the conventional builds.
  9. Elbow

    Elbow Klinklang-arang

    I meant calling the Landy and Qwilfish version a rogue.
    But to be fair, just because pokemon advertises a main pokemon or 2 for a set doesn't mean that those 2 will always paired up. XY offered Megas and they weren't viable at all until this set really.
    I'm not saying that the clear obvious Fairy deck from XY was rogue, but the Plasma and Klinklang ones were.
    And just a question for you, would you consider Henry Prior's VirGen with Balloons or Lex D'Andrea's DarkGarb decks rogue (at the time) even though they are closely related to the conventional builds?
  10. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't call Henry's list rouge at the time. People were trying to find a partner for Virizion and Genesect and Balloons seemed to fit that nicely. And DarkGarb was probably his choice because of the release of Virizion EX and Genesect EX, and it also does very well vs. Blastoise. They were not rouge, they were smart choices.
  11. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care Staff Member

    No, I would not. Teching in some cards into an existing archetype to deal with a match up doesn't create a rogue, and pairing up Garbodor and Darkrai wasn't a new idea when Lex D'Andrea did it.

    Because the word 'rogue' seems to carry a lot of kudos in the Pokemon community, I prefer to use it for genuine innovation in terms of decks/strategies. I want to use the word very rarely, while most people seem to be in a hurry to claim 'rogue' for every failed archetype, new tech, or even stuff that no-one uses because it's just bad ('look at my rogue Ampharos deck!').

    Gyarados SF was rogue (when it debuted at French Nats anyway)
    The Truth was rogue at Worlds 2011
    Jimmy Ballad's 2008 'Arithmetic' was rogue
    The Delta (Raieggs) deck was a rogue winner of US Nats in 2006

    Most successful 'rogue' decks become archetypes very quickly. The ones that don't either rely too heavily on the surprise factor or are made obsolete by metagame shifts/rotations.
    onlyinAMERICA likes this.
  12. Elbow

    Elbow Klinklang-arang

    Ok, I was just wanted to hear your opinion.
  13. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care Staff Member

    Ha ha, I've got lots more to say on that subject, but I'll likely save it for the mini articles that we might be doing.

    The trouble is that there is too much kudos attached to the idea of rogue. Lots of people want to say 'I play rogue' or 'I'm a rogue deck-builder' because there is an implied superiority: 'hey, I'm not like all you uncreative netdeckers who aren't capable of originality'.
  14. Salamencetrainer34

    Salamencetrainer34 An ogre-achiever

    I think what professor N meant to say, is a deck isnt as popular, that it wont be teched against, until it wins a tournament that is big. Such as states or regionals. Then, it will get lots of attention and be realized as a possible threat. Then it will get teched against at worlds and will fail miserably.
  15. Alakazam15

    Alakazam15 New Member

    To show Kangaskhan fairy has potential here is the recent concluded Philippines Nationals:

    1. Virgenraichu Deck
    2. Yveltal Garbo
    3. Yveltal Darkrai raichu Deck
    4. Kangaskhan Fairy Deck
    5. Palkia Plasma Deck
    6. Yveltal Speed Deck
    7. Plasmatisse
    8. Kangaskhan Fairy Deck

    After the nationals most players are already kangakhan ex hunting to try this deck out it has a lot of potential. 230 hp plus max potion is a strong wall to topple down.
  16. yoyos

    yoyos delicious hot potatos

    I tech landorus to deal with various problems that this deck may have (as well as a few other things) I liked the versatility of the fairies engine, so that's what I went with on this one

    2 landorus EX
    2-2 mega/kangaskhan EX
    2-2 aromatisse
    1 fliptini
    1 xerneas x/y
    1 thundurus EX
    2 deoxys EX

    4 N
    4 juniper
    3 shauna
    1 colress
    3 skyla
    2 ultra ball
    1 pokemon fan club
    1 level ball
    2 muscle band
    3 max potion
    1 catcher
    1 lysandre
    1 tool scrapper
    1 megaphone
    1 dowsing machine
    2 fairy garden

    6 fairy
    2 plasma
    2 DCE
    4 prism

    It's a bit more technical and kind of steps away from kangaskhan being the major attacker, having both a one of xerneas and thundy does make it a bit harder to setup which hasn't really been a problem with lando and khan's attacks as of yet, but does give some great late game setup synergy.
  17. Hurrmaadurr

    Hurrmaadurr Is blasting off again

    I guess I don't quite understand the plasmaness in this deck 2 plasma ain't gonna do much unless you use deoxys. It seems too techy, only 3 balls and a fan club can't really help set up, I would use heavy and levels. Also, I would use 2 megaphone over one of each, and you should choose between catchers and lysandres. Maybe add a mewtwo.
  18. Tsunami

    Tsunami Seems legit.

    One mew two and one druddigon are musts for this deck. Rayquaza and Yveltal are the only things that can feasibly ko M Kanga, so it is important to make sure that you can get key revenge KO's in return. And yes, I agree, why play scrapper. M phone is superior, unless you plan to with around tools, in which case a 1-1 Masquerain PLB would be better I think
  19. yoyos

    yoyos delicious hot potatos

    I like how techy the deck is, that's why I made it that way. The ball situation really isn't much of a problem due to my high supporter count (and the 20+ games of testing, I usually start with 2 basic pokemon in hand, both usually fast attackers) getting a basic out to attack with isn't an issue and those balls are meant to be used for getting aromatisse out asap everything else is kinda optional. Deoxys is a better mewtwo that's why I play it, the muscle bands are meant for the kangaskhan's and the lando's, with 2 energy after a setup basically I have a setup deoxys (2 plasma makes it easier to setup). Uh megaphone isn't that superior and in some matchups question it's validity compared to tool scrapper. A druddgion does make sense, but I could always just tech a suicune or a sigi.
  20. Otaku

    Otaku Well-Known Member

    Therein lies the problem; "rogue" should carry neither a good nor a bad connotation because it doesn't automatically guarantee success or even "proper" creativity. If someone net-decks and fails to perform well, they are still a net-decker; if someone attempts to "go rogue" and they fail, they still "went rogue". Let "good" be "good" and "bad" be "bad".

    Especially because players that like to lie are still going to lie no matter how much we narrow down the definition of "rogue" (which I prefer to ascribe more to a metagame choice than anything else)... but I am getting off topic.

    This deck is not "rogue", just a "Tier Uncomfirmed" archetype. The concept is sound; only a few decks can reliably and repeatedly OHKO a M Kanghaskhan EX... and you can run back-up attackers or similar counter-strategies to deal with them. I am pleased actual play is starting to prove some M Pokémon-EX worthwhile; perhaps the near instant domination of Mewtwo EX made us forget that new gimmicks are often terrible the first time out. ;) I do have two questions directly pertaining to this thread:
    1. Why Prism Energy, especially early on in builds wanting to run Virizion EX to combat Special Conditions: Prism Energy provides (C) as soon as it touches M Kangakshan EX, doesn't it? Did I miss a ruling? ^^' I mean, Rainbow Energy works fine and you can even control where damage counters go thanks to Fairy Transfer.
    2. Muscle Band provides +20 points of damage, which means one less "heads" is required for a OHKO: is it worth it? Fairy Garden means that Float Stone isn't a worthwhile replacement, but even though it might get discarded before it can do anything, what about Hard Charm? It makes OHKOs even more difficult but should be quite valuable against 2HKOs as (if your opponent can't discard it) that is an extra 40 points of damage that needs to be done. It might push M Kangaskhan EX into 3HKO territory... which in a deck that can already make excellent use of Max Potion could make it seem immortal.