Does It Stand a Chance? – Gengar Prime and Vileplume

Written by | May 2, 2011 | 21 comments | 2,704 views | Rating: -5

This article is going to consider two Pokémon separately.

Gengar Prime

First, I am not trying to set off the “Hype Machine” again. We all know how many people were fearing this card. It was going to be BROKEN when Lost World was released. That never happened.

Yes, the LostVileGar variant made some noise at the European Cup, but it never really caught on in the USA.

So, the question must be asked: Does it stand a chance?

Here is one skeleton list focused on Gengar:

LostMewGar
Pokemon – 21

4 Mew Prime TM
3 Gastly TM
3 Haunter TM
4 Gengar Prime TM
3 Mime Jr. CL
2 Spiritomb TM
2 Mr. Mime CL

 Trainers – 17

3 Twins
3 Lost World
3 Rare Candy
2 Professor Elm’s Training Method
3 Pokemon Collector
3 Seeker

 Energy – 8

8 Psychic

That list totals only 44 cards, so it has room for a lot of techs. Some possible techs could be Professor Oak’s New Theory, Rescue Energy, etc.

So… why could this deck make a comeback? Well it is one of the non-fire or electric decks with a dedicated starter. You obviously want to open Mew Prime, but Mime Jr. Is not a bad starter either.

If you open with Mew Prime, you send a Gengar Prime to the Lost Zone and begin the Hurling on turn two. Meanwhile, you set up Gengar Primes on the bench.

I can possibly see this deck Lost Zoning six Pokemon by turn 7-8, then it just becomes a matter of getting out Lost World.

I really want to see this deck do well (because I pulled a Gengar Prime in a booster draft and am not planning on using it; it would be nice to be able to sell it for a pretty penny. Or, if anyone wants a Gengar Prime, PM me, we might be able to work out a trade).

However, I just do not know if this is going to make its way into the Top Tier. It is so hard to buy back into a card after it failed the Hype Machine once already.

Vileplume UD

Oh boy, here is a card that may people are overlooking. Yes I know that trainers can be played on turn one. Yes, I know that we lost Broken Time-Space, Spiritomb AR, and Rare Candy was weakened. Is that really enough to stop this card from seeing play?

Personally, I believe that is hinges on whether or not Pokemon Catcher is printed outside of Japan. If Pokemon Catcher is printed, I think that this Pokémon will see a comeback. Getting a trainer lock established is going to be HUGE for so many decks.

But this is going to take sooooooo long to get set up! Really? Who says so? This card could easily be established by turn two. Just listen to this:

We know that the probability of starting with any given card in your opening hand  (if it is maxed out) is a little over 40%. So…

  • Turn One you either start with Oddish or Pokemon Collector and one Rare Candy. Play one or two Oddish down, preferably two if Pokémon Catcher is in the format.
  • Turn Two you could either play Professor Elm’s Training Method or Pokemon Communication to get Vileplume. Rare Candy evolve that Oddish into Vileplume. Boom, you’ve established trainer lock.

Pokemon Catcher is essentially the same card as Gust of Wind

Now there is no way to use Pokemon Catcher. There is no Cyclone Energy. There is no Luxray GL LV.X. There is no Regice. There is no Infernape 4 LV.X, Blaziken FB, Froslass GL, etc. Basically, if you can get a Vileplume running early, your opponent is going to have a difficult time removing it from play.

Feel free to build you bench in peace and locking most of your opponent’s deck. Muhahaha, trainer lock strikes back.

Honestly, I really do not understand why this card is being written off by so many people. I do not understand why so many people are leaving the Trainer Locking way. The laid out scenario would not be that hard to pull off. Then the game would be under control.

Anyway, thanks for reading! If you are interested in a Gengar Prime, PM me.

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  • Anonymous

    Hehe advertising a Gengar prime in an article lol.

    Anyway, the problem with trainer lock is, why would you want to run enough rare candy/communication to get the Vileplume out T2 when you won’t be able to use any of those trainers at all all game yourself. If catcher becomes big enough, Gothielle (or what ever it’s called) will be in the format and that should be more popular in that case.

    • Anonymous

      Yes, it will be a strategic decision to run four Rare Candy just to hit the turn two Vileplume, but those would be the only trainers in the list. Also, I would not run Pokemon Communication, I would run Professor Elm’s Training Method (which could still be used for other stuff). As for clogging your hand, run four Professor Juniper and discard all of the garbage that you don’t need.

      The power of trainers did not go down much. Most Zekrom and Reshiram lists are very trainer heavy. On person on the gym forums “reported” that in Japan, Gothielle (name?) is a high Tier 2 deck just because it counters Zekrom and Reshiram due to trainer lock. With Vileplume you can still pair it with a strong attacker. Gothiwhateveritsnameis maxes out at 90 damage. I bet that someone can figure out how to pair Vileplume with a better attacker than that.

      • Anonymous

        Actually Gothitelle doesn’t cap at anything, 3 psychic energies nets 90, 4 nets 110, 5 130 etc so a very flexible attacker in general.

        Also sorry but trainers in general took a huge hit, saying it did not go down much is putting it way too lightly. With the SP engine, Speed engine, rare candy and many others out of the format, we’re pretty much left with communication as the best trainer. Obviously Catcher will help balance that if/when it’s released in the future.

      • Anonymous

        Yeah I misread the Gothitelle card. Sorry about that. However, a Vileplume on the bench is going to be much more difficult to deal with than a Gothitelle active.

        However, just because the speed trainers left, does not mean that trainers went down. Energy Retrieval, Revive, Switch, Pokemon Communication, Rare Candy (even for several ReshiBoar builds), Junk Arm, Energy Switch, Dual Ball, Super Scoop Up, Pokemon Catcher (if it comes out), etc. Just because they are not the trainers that we are accustomed to playing now, does not mean that Trainers in general are weaker.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_N2PGPTSHDEGNBV3NKNQQIOPQEM Fallen Ronin

    A few issues with the list you posted:

    Why multiple copies of Mr. Mime? One should be all that you need for a skeleton list (which it seems to be since you only listed 44 cards).

    There doesn’t seem to be much point in using Mime Jr. (especially playing three copies of it) without support from Slowking UD. You’re going to be giving your opponent easy prizes with Mew prime.

    • Anonymous

      Fair points on Mime Jr. I guess i just figured that it could be used as a potential starter. If you get to go first, you can Lost Zone random stuff and then have a 50/50 chance of surviving the opponents turn. For example, this happened to me at the Missouri State Tournament, my opponent first and Lost Zoned a Charizard on the very first turn of the game. He also received favorable flips and the Mime Jr. lived to fight another day. I’m not saying it’s perfect, but it can happen some times.

      However, the format is going to lose Azelf. So, if your singular Mr. Mime is prized, you have no way of retrieving it. Two is going to be needed.

  • Anonymous

    I’m sorry, but I really don’t like your list. Mew Prime is just a free prizes. I would rather go with the Four-Candy-Speed-Version. :P

    • Anonymous

      That’s fine.

      But, Gengar Prime is prize bait too in this format, 130 HP is going to be in OHKO range a lot. It is going to be vital that you start Lost Zoning stuff by turn two. a 4-3-4 Gengar Prime, 4 Rare Candy, and 4 Mew Primes is going to be vital to do that.

      • Anonymous

        Ya got a point, with all the Reshiram & Zekrom hype.

  • Anonymous

    If you’re running a G-Prime, why do you not have 4 Seekers and 4 Twins on the list? These Supporters are essential to ANY lostGar deck, especially since everybody says Mew is an easy Prize. Fine, play Twins, get your Seeker, Spiritomb TM, and let the LZ’s begin.

    And for all those that don’t like the Mew’s;
    Mew Prime will be essential in LostGar now that the format has slowed down so much. I know Donphan and others can OHKO it, but now you can swarm with Mew or G-Prime, whereas in the current format the speed, and Garchomp C, won’t allow that.

    • Anonymous

      Easy bro. There are only 44 cards in that list. Go fill out the Twins and Seeker lines. It is a skeleton list.

  • Anonymous

    And I want to see this card do well also, because I have 33 of them……

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/pgmcsskater pgmcsskater

    Several things I would suggest for gengar…. first of all you should run dual ball… its faster than collector. Secondly I suggest ditto TM because it reduces the bench of your opponent while you really don’t need a bench at all. Mime jr isn’t necessary at all. Also I suggest a cleffa in your build because its a great hand refresh card in a slow format. Plus where are the revives, and energy retrievals? I think those should be staples in a deck as this one. Lastly a nice card to throw in this deck is lost remover, it helps against decks that utilize dce… still a great article.

    Btw im using my phone so sorry for an autocorrected words… lol

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/pgmcsskater pgmcsskater

    Several things I would suggest for gengar…. first of all you should run dual ball… its faster than collector. Secondly I suggest ditto TM because it reduces the bench of your opponent while you really don’t need a bench at all. Mime jr isn’t necessary at all. Also I suggest a cleffa in your build because its a great hand refresh card in a slow format. Plus where are the revives, and energy retrievals? I think those should be staples in a deck as this one. Lastly a nice card to throw in this deck is lost remover, it helps against decks that utilize dce… still a great article.

    Btw im using my phone so sorry for an autocorrected words… lol

    • Anonymous

      First, I can possibly see Lost Remover in this deck. However, that is going to be highly dependent on how people build their Zekrom/Reshiram decks.

      Second, I understand tat dual ball is an option, but Pokemon Collector is a lot more consistent. However, the list is only at 44, so put in some dual ball if you want.

      Third, I can see trading the Mime Jr.s with Cleffas. However, read one of my comments below. Mime Jr. is not completely useless. A lot of decks are going to have extremely tight lists. So, Lost Zoning stuff turn one could be crippling for them.

      Fourth, why would you need a lot of revives? The idea is to start with Mew Prime and set up 2-3 Gengar Primes throughout the game. If each one of those takes one or two Pokemon to the Lost Zone with it, you do not need a lot of revives. Maybe two should be in it.

      Fifth, why would you want a lot of Energy Retrievals? The main cards of the deck do not have a Retreat Cost. The only energy discards will be from KO’s. Maybe one or two Retrieval or Fisherman, but not more than that.

  • Anonymous

    THe problem with this deck is that the new black and white pokemon Liepard will own it. Its first attack brings up a pokemon on the bench, like blaziken or luxray. THis will kill vilplume because there won’t be any warp energy or unknown Q’s. Also Liepards second attack does 30+30 more dame if it has a dark energy, pair that with special dark and you hit Gengar for 140 KO. Liepard will be the greatest counter to this deck.

  • Anonymous

    I think that your are misreading the article. It is not a Vileplume/Gegar Prime deck. It is looking at Gengar Prime and Vileplume separately.

    Anyway, it does not matter if Gengar Prime is getting OHKO’d. The constant stream of Mew Prime and Gengar Prime just need to Lost Zone two Pokemon once to gain the upper hand. A ton of things can OHKO Gengar Prime or Mew Prime, Liepard is just one that can.

    As for Vileplume, I was merely pointing out that Vileplume could easily be set up early in the game and MAY not be completely obsolete.

    • Anonymous

      I think you should’ve done them as CoTD’s instead.

      • Anonymous

        Yeah.

        They have already been done though. Also, this is meant to be a mini series to specifically look at from HGSS to CL and offer an opinion on whether or not they will have a place in the next format.

  • Anonymous

    There’s one card that im surprised no one on here has mentioned to help against donphan…

    Crobat prime

  • Eugene Ryoo

    Porygon 2 from Undaunted. Its Poke-Power reads:
    Poke-Power: Mapping
    Once during your turn, when you play Porygon-2 to evolve one of your Pokemon, you may use this power. Search your deck for a stadium card, and put it in your hand. Shuffle your deck afterward.
    The you could just drop a SSU or a Seeker.