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  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_BPUAUXJE4WDVH5OMKWP3ETIRXE tht gerg

    Cleffa is overrated, sorry.

    • http://twitter.com/Iansedelow Ian Sedelow

      Yeah I guess if you don’t like a boost in consistency, a great free retreat play, and 50% invincibility.

      • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/ZETUB3TM3ZC4KJULZ4PYPEJR7I Tony

        And, don’t forget that it’s awfully cute with a super-cool Elvis hairdo

      • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb Kenny Wisdom

        ^

        Thanks for reading!

      • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb Kenny Wisdom

        Hahahah. Great comment. Thanks for reading!

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_BPUAUXJE4WDVH5OMKWP3ETIRXE tht gerg

        If you like a boost in donked rates, a great free prize for your opponent, and 25% chance of doing squat for a while + 50% vulnerability, then go for Cleffa. Playtest a 100 more games before coming to talk to me.

    • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb Kenny Wisdom

      Again, have you played very much HS-on? If so, that’s great, I’m glad that people are getting different results, it’ll probably lead to a pretty wide format. If not, I don’t really think that negative comments about cards that you’ve never used in a format you’ve never played really help anyone.

      Thanks for reading, though, and let’s talk!

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_BPUAUXJE4WDVH5OMKWP3ETIRXE tht gerg

        Sorry, I have attended and judged multipe HS-on tourneys already. An underwhelming minority used Cleffa.

  • madhatterni

    rather open with a cleffa than an unown Q lol

    • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb Kenny Wisdom

      Haha, agreed. Thanks for reading, and if you subscribed to PTW, thank you as well!

  • Anonymous

    eeeeeek! cleffa is going to cost you a prize, or even worse delay you for multiple turns while it tries to wake up.

    • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb Kenny Wisdom

      I don’t mean to be rude at all, but how many games have you played HS-on? Because I’ve logged probably around 50 with multiple decks, and Cleffa has proven to be very solid in a lot of them. If you have different testing results I’d love to hear them, but I’d like to think that I’m giving a very informed opinion in this article.

      Still, thanks for reading, and I’d honestly like to hear if you have any contrary testing results.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_BPUAUXJE4WDVH5OMKWP3ETIRXE tht gerg

        How’d you test? Solitaire? lol.

      • Anonymous

        Well, you see, Kenny Wisdom actually has friends.

      • Anonymous

        actually I can see cleffa working. if you do give up that prize at least you have early access to twins and black belt. After testing I can see a lot of the new decks require reliable hand refresh pretty often. Im still aftraid of over-sleeping with cleffa and pichu though. Also, mountain eater larvitar loves to eat cleffa’s, and sometimes minccinos too.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t think cleffa will be any good at all. When the next set comes out, if it has not died already, it will just be a free prize for your opponent even on the bench.

    • http://twitter.com/soujiroelric Carlos Vergara

      Next format won’t see that much sniping and turn 1 KOs. Most decks won’t be able to deal 30 or more damage during T1.

      • Anonymous

        Its not that, im just saying with gust of wind coming out sooner or later, its not going to be that great IMO

      • http://twitter.com/soujiroelric Carlos Vergara

        Ah, that, but then we can discuss if starters are going to be useful at all.

      • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb Kenny Wisdom

        I have a few different opinions on this subject…
        For one, you could be right. Cleffa is an easy Catcher target. However, the only deck that can get that early damage off is Donphan, and that can kill way more than a Cleffa (it can basically kill any basic besides LEGENDs and Zekrom/Reshiram). I doubt that many Catchers will be aimed at Cleffas.

        Also, Carlos brings up a good point, that’s a completely different format, y’know? Not saying that the point isn’t valid, but I was mainly discussing HS-BW in this article.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_BPUAUXJE4WDVH5OMKWP3ETIRXE tht gerg

        Cleffa gonn get sniped by Yanmega Primes. No need for catchers. Its free prize fo sho.

  • Anonymous

    there are barely any good starters in the next format besides smeargle which can cost you a hand if your forced to juniper, cleffa allows you to play your opening hand as much as you want then reset for next turn… it has low hp but with the general decline of opening attackers (zekrom not included) and 50% chance to be un-attackable, it may survive the turn to be free retreated (only 25% chance of not waking up)…. so stop eeeeeeking at poor little cleffa its trying its hardest, and for a baby its doing pretty good :(

    • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb Kenny Wisdom

      Haha, great comment. Thanks for reading!

  • Anonymous

    I just wonder, how many people bashing Cleffa played with it back some time ago.

    • icy11893

      its different from back then.

      • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb Kenny Wisdom

        Also a good point.

      • Anonymous

        Cleffa is much different from its Neo Genesis days. The baby power made all of the babies good. If people play Cleffa now, you could just run a Tyrogue for the first turn knock out. I mean yeah ther are other options than Tyrogues, but back in the day, Tyrogue was the one to go with. lol

    • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb Kenny Wisdom

      Good point.

  • Anonymous

    Cleffa may work out, I’d rather go with Stantler or Minun bench Pokemon. 8f you are going to give away a Prize it might as well be for something guarenteed. You could wiff on what you need with the Cleffa draw. You could also have too good of a hand to use the attack, and then you’ve wasted a turn.

    I know I’m in the minority, but IMO Sabledonk has opened up the format and make it fresh again. Sp decks are going to have to run 4 Sableye, slowing them down. Spiritomb allows many evolution decks (beside G-dos and VileGar) to be viable.

    So, you have a slower SP and ,ore viable Stage 1 and 2 decks. Sounds good to me…

    • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb Kenny Wisdom

      Stantler and Minun are certainly viable options, and what you’ve said about Cleffa is true. However, I think with 4 Cleffa and 4 Collector (or some count of Collector and Dual Ball) you have a good chance of getting Pokemon AND getting to Eek. A lot of my games have gone like this…

      Open CleffaCollector for Pokes
      Play an energy
      Play any other viable cards
      Eeek

      It’s not as if you have to choose between playing cards or Eeking, y’know?
      And as far as Sabledonk improving the format…I get what you’re saying in that different decks will pop up, but the idea is that, as a person playing against Sableye, you’re forced to either play Spiritomb (and therefore be one style of deck) or have fun getting between 0-1 turns in each round. It’s just too constricting. At least when SP was around you got to play different types of decks (speed, SP, set-up, trainer lock, etc.) and often got more than one turn.

      Thanks for reading!

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_BPUAUXJE4WDVH5OMKWP3ETIRXE tht gerg

        4 Cleffa = wishing to get donked.

  • http://twitter.com/soujiroelric Carlos Vergara

    There’s something I didn’t like while I was reading your article, and it’s the fact you’re just praising Emboar, Reshiram and Cleffa. I do agree most of these cards won’t stand on their own deck, but let’s be fair. Cinccino can deal lots of damage in no time, and Zoroark is awesome as a counter against Reshiram and Zekrom, aswell as keeping the consistency of some decks. Zekrom is also a faster deck than Emboar/Reshiram and Mandibuzz can be used as a counter for certain cards like Gengar. Krookodile might do wonders on its own deck (although I’d like to think how) and Juniper is great for some decks, aswell as serving as a second option for PONT.

    That’s my opinion though, and I think you did a good work nonetheless. It was a pretty informative article, and thank you for it.

    • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb Kenny Wisdom

      Yeah, I may have been a little too rough on some cards. I just think that Emboar decks, especially Emboar/Magnezone are the nuts, and my testing has backed that up. I’ll certainly be wrong on a few of these cards and I expect that some of them will turn out to be quite good decks. I agree with you on Zoroark and your point about Zekrom. Didn’t mean any offense at all, I’d love if all of these cards turned out to be sick decks.

      Thanks for reading!

  • icy11893

    scoop to zekrom if you flip heads on cleffa? no thanks ill take my chances on 4 collector 1 cleffa 4 stantler.

    • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb Kenny Wisdom

      Not really sure what you’re saying here. Do you mean that if you open a lone Cleffa and Eek they can donk you easier? Well, that’s true, but I mean, if you open with Cleffa, go first, and don’t have any other Pokemon or any cards to play anyway it’s already going to be a hard game for you. Plus, Zekrom can’t exactly get the donk off super super easily, y’know?

      Not trying to invalidate Stantler at all, I just think Cleffa is better. Thanks for reading!

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_BPUAUXJE4WDVH5OMKWP3ETIRXE tht gerg

        Stantler > Cleffa. Less donking chance FTW. And your search is definite.

      • icy11893

        zekrom can first turn outrage everytime. and pachi could donk the cleffa aswell. and about 60% of the time you have a solo cleffa. ive done my fair share of testing and i still need to do more. but i know that cleffa is decent but like everything it has its goods and bads. and for cleffa early game you better be good at flipping tails or have 3 basics opening hand.

  • Anonymous

    Really useful article!

    Is there anywhere online where you can order BW packs with online codes? Do the packs on Amazon have them? Thanks!

    • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb Kenny Wisdom

      Thanks for reading! Please rate the article if you have a moment, and subscribe to the youtube channel if you have an account there.

      I’m not sure exactly which packs have them. I know that none of the packs that come in blisters (aka the kind you get at Wal*Mart or Target or anything) have them, they’re only available in packs that come from actual boxes. I’d e-mail the seller and ask. :)

      • Anonymous

        Awesome, thanks!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3QN5SCPLONI57JVRT3TSTJGNVQ Chris Barrieau

    YO! Just wanna say: This was an AWESOME article! Very helpful, much better than other non-UG articles lately. Props, and thanks! :)

    • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb Kenny Wisdom

      Thanks man! I appreciate that a lot. Thanks for reading and subscribing (if you did)!

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/pgmcsskater pgmcsskater

    With intense play-testing, I have noticed that cleffa is not only goo early game but also good late game. The format is going to be so slow that using a supporter like Elms or Collector will leave you with a dead hand, so “Eek” is very helpful to get yourself out of that situation. You also get a 50% chance of invincibility. It may only have 30 HP but alot of pokemon in the next format wont be able to do it early game. I can also think of only 2 Pokemon that can kill it while its asleep and thats Gengar Prime and Crobat Prime.

    Lastly, why is Pidgey not getting any love?

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_AHE7W74T3ZL5RFLI4R2B7A6ZIQ Alex Holdway

      I think pidgey misses out on the love because it uses an energy for the turn and is only really effective for one turn as it goes back to the deck leaving an unenergised pokemon active.

      just speculating mind!

      • http://www.youtube.com/user/pgmcsskater pgmcsskater

        i think it helps accelerate the process of getting a deck like Ttar set up where it has a free retreater….

      • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb Kenny Wisdom

        Pidgey is a decent card that could see some play, for sure. It’s worth trying out, I just think that Cleffa and a few other pokes are probably better for consistency. LMK how your testing with Pidgey goes!

  • Anonymous

    I subscribed to the page, but I wasn’t a fan of the sabledonk video. I hope you guys use vilegar in a way where I can see how it works.

    • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb Kenny Wisdom

      Yeah, the Sabledonk video wasn’t the greatest. We’re mainly focusing on HS-on atm, but we’ll definitely be going over Battle Roads in the next few weeks, so expect to see at least some discussion on VileGar.

      Thanks for subscribing!

  • Anonymous

    I wish Cleffa were good. I mean, it seems like a solid play with a 50% chance of blocking damage, but it still has to deal with damage counters being placed and other special conditions. If it were like the Neo Genesis Cleffa and gave 7 cards as well as blocking any attack 50% of the time, it would be a much better play. Of course Twins abuse is possible… If you draw one in the 6 new cards.

    Looking forward to seeing what you put out on the YouTube channel. The more people talking competitive Pokémon, the better.

    Have to agree with you on the Zoroark box. Pulled a full-art Reshiram and Zekrom as well as a regular Rom and a reverse Ram. With the guaranteed Zoroark as well, it’s definitely worth it.

    • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb Kenny Wisdom

      I think Cleffa is very good. I don’t see it going into every single deck, but it’s performed quite well in a few decks for us. Damage counters aren’t as big of an issue in HS-on, where Crobat isn’t around and all.

      And thanks for subscribing! Tell your friends and all. We’ll be pumping out a lot more quality videos on a regular basis from now on.

      Word, I haven’t picked one up yet but I really need to. Sick pulls!

  • Michael Sison

    This is a great article, Kenny. I’m a huge fan of Grass-type Pokémon, and I hope Serperior gets to be popular next season. I just wish there was a way for decks based on Grass-type Pokémon to get around decks based on Fire-type Pokémon like Emboar and Reshiram, though.

    • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb Kenny Wisdom

      Thanks!

      Yeah, Serperior is a super interesting card. It has at least 2 formats to be legal in though, so I’m sure it’ll get it’s time to shine eventually.

      Thanks for reading!

      • Michael Sison

        I enjoy a lot of your articles, actually. :-) Anyway, what about adding a 1-1 Metapod evolution line in decks based on Grass-type Pokémon? Would that help cover most Grass-type Pokémon’s weakness to Fire-type Pokémon? What do you think?

      • Anonymous

        its a good idea but when catcher starts running rampant metapod will just be a liability waiting to happen, then when your weakness comes back any good fire deck and even some not good ones will steamroll right over you… single type decks will be powerful but hard against a deck of your weakness, SP was huge because it had multiple types (and ridiculous engine, but no deck in next format will have anything like that) … we really need to start working on the next “SP-style” deck, where its consistent, fast and doesn’t get trapped by weakness too badly… mandibuzz/kingdra prime looks good as was talked about in a different article but its heavy electric weakness is an issue against zekrom and magnezone variants

      • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb Kenny Wisdom

        Good points all around, especially about Catcher. Thanks for reading!

      • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb Kenny Wisdom

        Thanks! I really appreciate that. :)

        And yeah, Metapod is a decent choice but with Catcher coming out I’m not sure it’ll be completely reliable. =

        That card is the blemish on what looks to be an awesome format.

        Good thinking though. Could be viable.

      • Anonymous

        My wife likes grass decks and we tried metapod for hgss on, but then I realized reshiram can one shot anything worth attacking with anyway without weakness.

  • Anonymous

    another great article, I agree with nearly all of that other than cincinno and zoroak could be a formidable deck. I doubt it would be tier 1 but I think it has nice potential if a new card that helps in some way other than ninetales comes along

    • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb Kenny Wisdom

      Word, valid idea. Thanks for reading!

  • Anonymous

    Stantler/Minun =/= Dunsparce SS guys. Sorry to break it to y’all.
    And while Cleffa HS definitely =/= Cleffa Neo, it is definitely one of the premier draw cards this format. And don’t forget, all of your supporters should be fetching you value, no matter what you do. You should have no trouble setting up a bench and Eeeeeking.And I may be remembering this incorrectly, but the only card remotely close to Pokemon Collector in Exp-On was Lanette’s Net Search, which was really only used in the CattyTon Turbo decks anyways. This was one of the sole reasons that Dunsparce was so good (besides the fact that the card was for sure one of the best starters ever printed); cards like Collector didn’t really clog your hand after you benched out. Not to mention that Strike and Run is vastly different from CFF; the “run” ability was highly relevant.

  • Anonymous

    Serperior is a great card with the Stage2 Cell type. I was screwing around with this last night… it was pretty cool. Get 2-3 on the bench, build a tank, and heal 120-180/turn… I haven’t quite found the right tank yet, but Meganium Prime… I’m working on it.

  • Anonymous

    Hey, random question since you’ve been testing Emboar: Have you tried out Rayquaza & Deoxys LEGEND yet? I really think that it could be the core of a solid deck in HS-On since you can one-shot almost anything with its attacks (Including Ram and Rom) and draw two prizes for doing so. Of course, it’s weak to Cinnicino, so there is that downside, but I’d love to see this deck succeed.

  • http://twitter.com/mngf87 Martin Garcia

    Im sorry to have to be the one to put this down, but i dont like this article. AT ALL.

    While i agree on the serperior,reuniclus and junipper toughts, i have to disagree on all else.

    Reshiram is arguably better than zekrom, but its first attack is by no means terrible. Its not impressive either, but coupled with the dragons massive 130 hp, an attack like that can easily deal 70~100 damage with a single DCE, or 2 fires. Sure, it will be killed next turn, but unless you switch-seeker it up, its gonna die anyways, so its a good way to get something in return for it.

    While the inferno fandango emboar is good, the other one is just a gimmick. Both reshiram and emboar can abuse DCE, so having to pay 4 energies to hit for 150, and discarding all of them seems rather bad in my cook. Specially with the 4 retreat cost. When (if) catcher is realesed, that enormous retreat will make him a liability, and unless you play a heavy count of switch, or have any other way to get it out of the active spot easily(in 1 or 2 turns, max) he will be toast.

    So i see the pig has a really grim future. Then again, if catcher is never realesed, his cost is nothing relevant.

    The main problems i have are both with zoroark and cinccino.

    Using the dragons attacks for a single DCE, and not having to discard (in reshiram´s case) is not relevant for you? If thats so, i think you need to retest from the start.

    Zoroark will, withouth a doubt, become the perfect counter for both reshiram and zekrom, a single pluspower, a an sp dark, or a spray splash from kingdra can get the dragons out of commision, and it is arguably as fast as they are.

    Finally, while cinccino is getting more hype than it deserves, its still a great card, and coupled with zoroark i can see it as a tier 1 deck, if a good enough list comes up. As i mentioned before, having low retreat costs will be huge with catcher on format, they use the same energies (colorless), and can abuse sp dark (in zoroarks case, which makes the pluspower/kingdra useless), rescue, and any other special energy thats comes out in the future. You can easily retreat/switch them, seeker, and use the DCE you just took from one on the other. Thats a lot of synergy.

    The main problem i see with them is donphan, but i dont know how much the elephant will be played anyways.

    • Anonymous

      …except that Catcher wasn’t released in BW. No offense, but analyzing an article based on cards that aren’t even out yet is akin to the old Machamp SF hype, but before SPs were introduced. It just isn’t relevant in terms of Nationals and Worlds.

      While Catcher will certainly be relevant for next season, I think you’re looking a bit too far in the future.

      As for the Outrage comment: this is a format focused on OHKOs. Zekrom and Resh shouldn’t last the turn unless you’re playing against control or something weird. I suppose it’s plausible that you miss the pluspower draw, but at that point you would probably be in set up phase anyways.

      Zoroark is good, but it’s reliance on DCE, takes 2-4 spaces in your list on average, and the fact that it’s a 1 turn setup makes the card slightly worse on average than other tech options. It’s definitely a powerful card, but it’s a slow counter in a relatively fast format. You’ll be giving up one prize before the Zoroark ever has a chance to do anything if you’re playing it in response to something.

  • Anonymous

    The rotation is gonna happen. We copied Japan’s rules, there’s no reason we won’t copy the rotation. I’m tired of people trying to justify Sabledonk. You’re ruining the last chance we have with old cards, not to mention you’re making Battle Roads sort of…I dunno…not fun. Which is sort of the reason we play this game in the first place.

    I’m running 4 sableye in my deck + 1 mespirit to combat Sabledonk. Most people will counter it as well. If you’re wanting to win, don’t run it. If you’re wanting fun, don’t run it. If you’re “TRYING TO HELP THE CAUSE, MANG. MAKE ROTATION HAPPEN”, don’t worry, it’s gonna happen.

    You people be ruining this fun, competitive game, I swear to gawd

  • http://profiles.google.com/lurbula.amelia.ninja Lurbula ninja

    Cleffa my favorite ho, she make my dick big