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  • Anonymous

    Very good article,

  • Anonymous

    Very good article,

    • http://www.facebook.com/kennywisdom Kenny Wisdom

      Thanks!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C7OQD6BLJCXQBNSHNZWVWLRXHE George

    Thanks for the great overview. I still think that SF Gengar is going to be relevant and impactful until its rotation.

    The Spiritomb/Vileplume Deck (VileGar) can also cause some serious disruption to SP decks if it is teched right. Opponents’ hand manipulation seems to be the tactic of the season! Judge, Lookers, Cyrus’s Initiative, Chatot G, and other cards meant to disrupt and control what your opponent has acces to is key to the Meta.

    Hey! That would make a great article! Any takers?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Peter-Bae/583235222 Peter Bae

      i thikn someone already wrote an article with VileGar + Initiative and disruptive options lol

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Martin-Garcia/676689170 Martin Garcia

        He was referring to a full article about hand disruption and topdeck locking on the meta right now, not about vilegar specifically.
        And i agree, that seems like it would be an interesting article to read.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kennywisdom Kenny Wisdom

      Thanks for the compliment!

      Yeah, I’ve wanted to try out a disruptive version of VileGar for a while, but I think the trainer lock hurts them enough, not to mention the fact that you wanna leave Supporters and Trainers in their hand for the Poltergeist. Solid idea though. I don’t think I’m qualified enough to write that article, but one of my staff writer colleagues will take you up on that offer, I’m sure.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kennywisdom Kenny Wisdom

      Thanks for the compliment!

      Yeah, I’ve wanted to try out a disruptive version of VileGar for a while, but I think the trainer lock hurts them enough, not to mention the fact that you wanna leave Supporters and Trainers in their hand for the Poltergeist. Solid idea though. I don’t think I’m qualified enough to write that article, but one of my staff writer colleagues will take you up on that offer, I’m sure.

  • Anonymous

    I would say that gyarados has an even match against Luxchomp. Why? Because if you can just cyclone, regimove, and warp point around the Luxray, you can pick of cheap prizes. (cough*cough*luxchomp*cough*cough). If you can also get a rescue energy on to gyarados, luxchomp is in huge trouble.
    Also I think dialgachomp destroys gyarados because dialga can remove lost the rescue energy and hit between 80-100 damage. I’ve held a little tornement at my house, it was just Gyarados vs Dialgachomp, and it was best out of seven. Gyarados lost so fast it was sad. Getting rid of that rescue energy killed Gyarados every battle
    Very good article,

    • Anonymous

      Its not that Luxray is active that is the problem, its that Luxray can OHKO Gyarados that is the problem. It is irrelevant that you can Regimove.

      • Anonymous

        but beforew you go down you can pick off some prizes.

      • Anonymous

        It takes up quite a # of cards.

    • Anonymous

      I would say 60-40 gyarados because you one shot everything they have with a belt.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_BVLAHY7ZQT4FWPIZCE6IPXVYWI K

    i mean seriously you put gyarados there put you don’t put vilegar. how is vilegar not tier 1

    • Anonymous

      Because Vilegar sucks. All that hype at BR and how did it do? Oh, that’s right…about as good as Gdos and Gdos picked up tons of help in TM.

      • Anonymous

        I doubt very many people played VileGar correctly at BRs. It’s not Tier 1 like all the hype made it out to be, but it’s not at all a bad deck.

    • Anonymous

      seriously those that don’t account for trainerlock, will not get very far.

      • http://www.facebook.com/kennywisdom Kenny Wisdom

        I will say that I agree with this. VileGar is decent, and Spiritomb as a whole is a good card, and there’s no reason you should discount trainer lock as a whole. It’s still a relevant threat and you should keep it in your mind.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kennywisdom Kenny Wisdom

      I think Gyarados is a much better deck that VileGar. I also don’t think Vilegar belongs on a tier one discussion this. It isn’t terrible, but it isn’t the best of the best, imo. Solidly tier two.

      • Jonathan

        The way I see it, Vilegar is to this format as Machamp was pre-Prime.
        It’s a considerable threat that you will lose to if you’re not ready for it. But it won’t win very many events.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dean-Linden/100000637446465 Dean Linden

        vilegar trashes gyarados. i think vile gar is tier one. i won a battle road with it even beating chris fulop playing kingdra. i just dont think play it right, im taking mine to citys and i have confidence. at the BR i won i was undeafted beating almost all of the decks u have on ur top tier list, i like the article and i read alot of ur stuff so im not dissin on u. just wished the deck was in the article.

  • Anonymous

    Just curious…You said that you think Dialgachomp is BDIF. But, according to your matchups, Machamp is BDIF and beats Dialga. You have Machamp beating everything except Gyarados…which I agree with, but it can easily tech in a Gyarados counter and help that matchup. So, being as that is the case, why do you not think Machamp is BDIF?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Peter-Bae/583235222 Peter Bae

      DialgaChomp has a better match up against all decks across the board where as to machamp is only good against SP Decks and gets demolished against stage 1/2 decks. I do not know anymore after the Prime, but as of now, DialgaChomp stays BDIF beacuse it stands firmly against all decks

      • Anonymous

        Agreed, all SP have a bed matchup against Machamp. But, how many “bad” matchups does Luxchomp have? None are particularly bad, in fact, all of them are fairly easily winnable. The only really “bad” matchup for Luxchomp is Donphan….which isn’t considered a T1 deck. My point was, if Luxchomp’s only “bad” matchup is a T2-T3 deck and it loses to Machamp, why is Machamp not considered BDIF since its only “bad” matchups are T2-T3 decks….and no evolution decks where considered T1 in this article. So, if a good Machamp player (and, of course, when considering matchups, all are supposed to be good players) gets passed the first and definitely the second round, it should be smooth sailing from there, since the rest of the matches should be against T1?

        I guess I just don’t consider Machamp T1. I think it is a solid T2, where T2 is defined by decks that consistently do well but rarely win. Which, is where Vilegar lands firmly.

      • http://www.facebook.com/kennywisdom Kenny Wisdom

        LuxChomp has a bad match-up against Machamp and Donphan. I understand what you’re saying though, you make good points.

        I will disagree that Machamp isn’t tier one, though. I think the pre-Prime version was solidly tier two, but the Prime catapults it to the top of the mountain.

      • http://www.facebook.com/kennywisdom Kenny Wisdom

        I don’t necessarily agree with all of that, but yeah, that’s basically correct.

    • Anonymous

      because machamp has awesome sp matchups.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kennywisdom Kenny Wisdom

      Well, I think there’s really no clear cut BDIF. By saying that Dialga was BDIF, I meant that A.) It has the chance to win every match-up, and B.) I am biased, haha.

      Machamp very well may be BDIF, though. I was just chatting about that with a few teammates. Such a good deck.

  • Anonymous

    Explain how Sablelock is unfavorable to Gyarados?

    Once you get the 3 Magikarp’s in the discard, it’s smooth sailing from there.

    • Anonymous

      with sablock it’s tough to get them there because they can judge/initiative them away.

      • Anonymous

        Also honchkrow sv makes it difficult because they can “darkness restore” there magikarps back to the bench, lowering gyarados’ damage output.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kennywisdom Kenny Wisdom

      Honchkrow makes the match-up difficult, and with Judge/Initiative, etc. it’s harder to get the Magikarps in the pile.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t see why you would need DGX in the Gyarados vs. Vile-Gar/JumPlume/Victreebell matchup because you run Regice. You can use Seeker in place of ssu, regice in place of junk arm, warp energy in place of switch/wpoint, rescue energy or combee instead of pkmnrescue, and crobat g instead of expert belt. Using crobat actually makes it a better matchup (bye bye feinting spell)

    • http://www.facebook.com/kennywisdom Kenny Wisdom

      A smart VileGar player, when staring at a Regice on board, will play 2 Spiritombs. The supporters also don’t really match-up with their trainer counterparts in effectiveness. I get what you’re saying though, I just disagree.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Scott-Christian/100001276193663 Scott Christian

    The question at the end of the article is “What are YOU playing for Cities?” Me personally, I like to be somewhat different so I am going with Gengar/Kingdra………….

    • http://www.facebook.com/kennywisdom Kenny Wisdom

      My teammate Michael Mascare loves that deck, haha! Good choice.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kennywisdom Kenny Wisdom

      My teammate Michael Mascare loves that deck, haha! Good choice.

  • Anonymous

    Thanks for the shoutout : )

    Definitely well-written and a good read. As some other people are saying, I think vilegar might deserve a spot on here, but the analysis is solid.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kennywisdom Kenny Wisdom

      Thanks!

  • Anonymous

    I don’t think I necessarily agree with the sablelock v. dialgachomp matchup. In nationals Con Le was able to beat Pooka with sablelock. Also you have to take into consideration if they are running a chenlock version. I’d say they are pretty even in general.

    • Anonymous

      Agreed. Sablelock and Chenlock are two entirely different games v.s DialgaChomp. With Chenlock you can Jet Shoot Dialga for an OHKO every time, but not with Sablelock.
      Sablelock v.s DialgaChomp- Unfavorable/Even
      Chenlock v.s DialgaChomp- Even/Favorable

    • http://www.facebook.com/kennywisdom Kenny Wisdom

      That’s a valid point, the Blaziken definitely swings things, but I still think Dialga wins overall.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Martin-Garcia/676689170 Martin Garcia

        not really, i have tested the match extensively, and the only real difference is made by garchomp. Blaziken totally neutralizes any dialga attempt at the board control, and garchomp-speaking, both dialga and chenlock have about the same resources, so i would say its even, if not slightly favorable for chenlock.

  • Anonymous

    Vilegar is poop.

    • Anonymous

      (this comment has been censored) :):D

      • Anonymous

        Nah, I actually typed poop. I was going to say ‘poopy’ but I thought a singular poop would be the better adjective.

        But come to think of it, isn’t all poop singular? Or is it all plural?

  • Anonymous

    vileGAR is def tier 1. it could be favorable during all SP Matchups. Certainly against Machamp, and certainly against Gyarados.

    “Dialga shuts it down” Boo hoo. What if they Level Down? What if they play tech a Cyrus Initiative to rid you of a Spray?

    Its a crazy deck. I also think Jumpluff/Vileplume/Sunflora is a great deck

    • http://www.facebook.com/kennywisdom Kenny Wisdom

      The way I think about it is: VileGar didn’t win during BRs. It didn’t get too much help in TM, whereas other decks did. What changes now? VileGar is good, just not tier one.

      I will agree, however, that Jumpluff/Vileplume/Sunflora is SUPER underrated, I like it better than VileGar and I wish I would’ve played it during BRs.

    • Anonymous

      Using Dialge against Vilegar is good Level down or not. When playing dialga g x level down should be the least of your worries in my opinion. You level up for that one turn allowing you to empty all the triners out of your hand and set up.

  • Anonymous

    Donphan Prime WAY improves your Luxchomp match-up if you put him in Gyarados. Also, he’s a solid attacker/tank against the other decks. Also helps w/ Sablelock matchup.

  • Anonymous

    Donphan Prime WAY improves your Luxchomp match-up if you put him in Gyarados. Also, he’s a solid attacker/tank against the other decks. Also helps w/ Sablelock matchup.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kennywisdom Kenny Wisdom

      I’m not quite sure I agree. Someone could prove me wrong though, and I understand the idea behind it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Andrehis Andrew Murray

    I loved the hell out of this article, Kenny. I wanna play Champ now, but am lacking in Champs.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kennywisdom Kenny Wisdom

      Appreciated, Andrew! Which Champs are you missing? I may have some for trade.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Anthony-Desiata/100001090365250 Anthony Desiata

    machamp beats g-dos. 100 then you just keep disc the rescue energys and beat them with the prime fighting tag x2/seeker heals and early game you donk the sableyes its really easy.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Martin-Garcia/676689170 Martin Garcia

      i don’t wanna spoil your fun, but Gdos has resistance to fighting, sets up faster since he hes a stage 1, and hits faster cause he needs no energy.
      Not to mention Gdos can use the warp-seeker combo too, so . . .

  • Anonymous

    Incredible article my friend. It provided a thorough insight on todays “tier 1″ decks. These types of articles remind me why I keep coming back to this site for the latest and greatest in Pokemon TCG. Again, a high quality article. Look forward to more man.

    • Anonymous

      The new JPN Gallade.

    • Anonymous

      The new JPN Gallade.

      • Anonymous

        I hope that’s not a bad thing…? ahaha

      • Anonymous

        It’s probably the worst thing.

      • Anonymous

        Haha All I did was give props out to this article dude. Don’t really want to be labeled as anyone or anything please. But I did read some of JPN Gallade’s comments on other articles, and I can see how you’d joke about the connection. Mildly funny.

        Also check out my article I wrote awhile back. Wouldn’t mind some feedback!

    • http://www.facebook.com/kennywisdom Kenny Wisdom

      Thanks!

    • http://www.facebook.com/kennywisdom Kenny Wisdom

      Thanks!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Pierre-Fortin/616300107 Pierre Fortin

    vilegar is very good, IF you have a good head on your shoulders and IF you have deck building skills a lil better than a junior. kinda like dialga chomp.

  • Anonymous

    To answer your final question, I’m planning on running Machamp. Right now I have Donphan as my secondary attacker, but I’m not sure if it will stay that way. Need to work on the deck before this weekend.

    I was originally planning to run VileGar w/Bellossom, but in my testing it continually lost. Then I was planning on running straight VileGar, but I’m 9 proxies away from a legal deck. So Machamp it is.

    Great article Kenny. On the whole VileGar debate: it is an excellent Tier 2 deck and it has serious possibilities, but it’s something that a novice can’t play well and a master can play around. I expect to see VileGar in a lot of top cuts, but I don’t think it will win that many city championships.

  • Anonymous

    Pretty sure I never comment anything serious anymore, but I’ve got one right here: Burmy all season. ‘Bout to dominate Nats. ;)

  • Anonymous

    I love machamp prime! IMO best prme of TM. Gengar will only be great if lost world is released, mew is too easy to KO and DGX kills it. Same with Celebi only difference is it has a power meaning that 1 shadow room does the trick. Absol is pretty good and so is Yanmega if played right. Magnezone has some potential and Electrode just flat out sucks…Sorry I just had to say that.

  • Anonymous

    Machamp might struggle against vilegar but my friend advised me to add regice to discard trainers and get around spiritomb.

  • http://www.facebook.com/SUP3R.M122 Jamiahi Consistent Fears

    You said Gyarados isnt as consistent as the others? Sableye start means auto first, gurantee Gyarados setup next turn with 1-1 Porygon 2 UD. Junk Arm, Rescue Energy, and Seeker only made Gyarados faster and MORE consistent. Its recovery is faster than any of the decks you listed, especially SP with Gyarados being able to OHKO each every turn and control your active. Gyarados honestly is the BDIF. VileGar is Tier 1 as well, hands down.

    • Jonathan

      I don’t see Porygon2 guaranteeing anything unless you start with a Porygon on the bench. Unless I’m mistaken, you need one turn to play Porygon and one turn to evolve it, just like you would with Gyarados if you didn’t already have the Broken Time Space in your hand. Unless Porygon is acting as a proxy to get sniped instead of your Magikarp before being able to evolve, I don’t see why you don’t just bench a Magikarp and wait a turn when you don’t have BTS.

      Also I believe it’s in TM, not UD.

      Junk Arm makes Gyarados faster and more consistent. Rescue Energy and Seeker do not. Recovery is very important, and Gyarados does it very well, but when people say fast and consistent, they usually are referring to initial setup as opposed to recovery.

      • http://www.facebook.com/SUP3R.M122 Jamiahi Consistent Fears

        Ok its in TM, who cares which set its in. I wont play Magikarp down with no way to evolve it that turn, anybody who knows the deck knows you dont do that.Its a free prize majority vs SP. Its either you get Porygon or BTS, so either way you are getting it.If they Power Spray, fine, Seeker and try again next turn.They have to ko it then. Rescue Energy makes it more consistent since you can have a Gyarados every turn even when its being Koed, Seeker I have used after a Sableye start to drop Regice twice to get 3 karps down in that turn. FAST-ER.

  • Anonymous

    Finally, tier definition! Although everyone had the basic jist of the tiers of decks, we obviously needed definition because I have seen people in the forums classify jumpluff in tier four, and other odd classification. Great article by the way.

  • http://twitter.com/sghirst Sophie Grace Hirst

    I have heard references to ‘Tier 4′ over the last few days on this site. Though I acknowledge that it is all very vague and subjective, I would like to know what decks players, generally, consider to be in ‘Tier 2′, ‘Tier 3′, and ‘Tier 4′.

    • Jonathan

      I don’t know where it was referenced, but my hunch is that when someone said a deck was Tier 4, they were basically saying it was absolutely awful. Generally, if it’s below tier 2, it’s probably off of most people’s radar, because it can’t beat most of the decks in tiers 1,2.

      Basically think of all the decks you feel are tournament-worthy. The way I see it, those decks are for the most part all Tier 1-2, with Tier 1 being the best of the best, and Tier 2 being the rest of the best.
      If I were to try to qualify Tier 3, I would probably say that a deck might fall into Tier 3 if it plays legitimately well, and can hold its own against a variety of good decks, but happens to fare poorly against far too many popular decks to really be playable.

      If you want more of an abstract definition, consider the decks that are the very best, and call that Tier 1. This will probably be 1-5 decks, based on what I’ve seen in the past. Tiers 2, 3, etc. should be constructed in such a way that, as a general rule, ruling out differences in player skill, if a tournament consists of an assortment of mostly Tier X decks, any Tier X deck will have a reasonable chance of winning. If someone enters playing a Tier X-1 deck, the Tier X-1 deck should be noticeably favored. Likewise, if someone enters playing a Tier X+1 deck, they will most likely do very poorly.

  • Anonymous

    What do you think about machamp/donphan? Viable?

  • 2decktom

    Won’t be here for cities. :( :( :( :( :(