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Pokemon Card Tips: World Championship Deck Analysis Gyarados

Written by Adam | August 31, 2009 | 56 comments | 1,857 views | Rating: 0

I saw Ian got this uploaded so I am posting it for him…I haven’t even watched it yet but it looks like a must watch. Check it!

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Xicious

First comment, so legit. This deck seems to techy and can easily be played around. Good worlds choice not so much outside of worlds…
Xicious

First comment, so legit. This deck seems to techy and can easily be played around. Good worlds choice not so much outside of worlds…
Ghoztmazta1

Does it really count as a magikarp in the discard if you discard it and then rescue it again?

but ontopic:
I dont think 2-2 claydol will do anything good to this kind of deck. And TSD, i dont know, its flippy. then Night maintence should be better? And i would add 1 or 2 more water energys just incase, and i can stall my opponent with gyarados next attack if i get stuck somewhere.

Dont say your bad or so. but i dont think changing that much will do it better for BR´s. Sure, they will run alot of SP decks out there, but i dont think the overall deck will counter it.
Ghoztmazta1

Does it really count as a magikarp in the discard if you discard it and then rescue it again?

but ontopic:
I dont think 2-2 claydol will do anything good to this kind of deck. And TSD, i dont know, its flippy. then Night maintence should be better? And i would add 1 or 2 more water energys just incase, and i can stall my opponent with gyarados next attack if i get stuck somewhere.

Dont say your bad or so. but i dont think changing that much will do it better for BR´s. Sure, they will run alot of SP decks out there, but i dont think the overall deck will counter it.
Woodstock

I liked Pachirisu in the deck. This deck isn’t half bad now that I’ve watched this video though, some great points fosho.
Woodstock

I liked Pachirisu in the deck. This deck isn’t half bad now that I’ve watched this video though, some great points fosho.
nardd

I was kind of upset when you took out pachirisu and put in unown G… Bad starts are NOT something this deck recovers easily from, and replacing a decent start with something not great at starting seems like a mistake. I don’t disagree with adding in the unown, but not over the pachi.

Memory berry seems like a waste. I get your point of the flail attack, but when you hit 90 for no energy AND have decent recovery, I would rather add in something to help consistency or pluspowers.
nardd

I was kind of upset when you took out pachirisu and put in unown G… Bad starts are NOT something this deck recovers easily from, and replacing a decent start with something not great at starting seems like a mistake. I don’t disagree with adding in the unown, but not over the pachi.

Memory berry seems like a waste. I get your point of the flail attack, but when you hit 90 for no energy AND have decent recovery, I would rather add in something to help consistency or pluspowers.
quaziko

Good video, I too think memory berry is unneeded. I would take out the two memory berry, then add back the pachi and perhaps another bebe or crobat.
quaziko

Good video, I too think memory berry is unneeded. I would take out the two memory berry, then add back the pachi and perhaps another bebe or crobat.
Fabien Garnier

4 TSD and no Rescue ? Well, TSD is worst than Rescue because it is so dangerous. 1st, you never wanna do 3 tails. But you’ll say that it only happens 1/8 so it doesn’t matter. But you also don’t wanna do 3 heads early game, when you only have 4 Magikarp and 1 Gyarados in your dicard pile, because if you do 3 heads, you’ll have to take back 1 Gyarados and 2 Magikarp and you’ll have to manage to discard a Magikarp once again, which is often a problem ! So, early game, TSD will be really bad 1/4, whereas Pokémon Rescue is never a problem.
Fabien Garnier

4 TSD and no Rescue ? Well, TSD is worst than Rescue because it is so dangerous. 1st, you never wanna do 3 tails. But you’ll say that it only happens 1/8 so it doesn’t matter. But you also don’t wanna do 3 heads early game, when you only have 4 Magikarp and 1 Gyarados in your dicard pile, because if you do 3 heads, you’ll have to take back 1 Gyarados and 2 Magikarp and you’ll have to manage to discard a Magikarp once again, which is often a problem ! So, early game, TSD will be really bad 1/4, whereas Pokémon Rescue is never a problem.
Fabien Garnier

OK, so, I enjoyed watching some video about my deck. Thank you man =)

But I’m really sorry to say this, the decklist is really worst after you changed it. To be honest, I didn’t playtest before Worlds, and so, I know my decklist has many problems. But with my friend Kiwill we’ve worked on it after Worlds and we made some really great changes and the deck is much better now. But our changes are totally different from yours, and I just can’t understand most of your choices. The only one that I understand is adding Unown [G].

I won’t break most of your changes one by one because I’m not here to break your work, I know it’s not easy, but I just wanted to warn people that want to play Gyarados…

Just one silly question : did you playtest the deck a lot before and after you changed it ? If you did so, then I’m sorry and maybe this works better for you… If you didn’t, then I think it’s too bad.

And, I’m really sorry if this post can hurt, I really enjoy what you do, but it’s just because I know the deck very well… I don’t wanna hurt anybody, I jsut want people to know the truth !

Rob S.

Ian, thanks for a really interesting deck analysis. It is very useful and interesting to see a competitive deck described and dissected in detail like this. I have been playing a variation of this deck, thinking that my son or I might play it in Battle Roads (he’s a junior, and I believe he could do well with this — he played Beedrill in Nationals, and this might be a better play). I was thinking about the MT Gyarados and Memory Berry as well, but I think that it takes space away from the main attack, which is better served in my mind with Bucks, PlusPowers, or a third Crobat.

I think the fourth Sableye is worth thinking about if you can find the space — it is always better to start with Sableye. And the Unown G could help in the almost-certain Flygon-Machomp machup you can expect in BR. I’ve found that deck can be a tough matchup.

Fabien, I definitely agree about the Pokemon Rescue — we play one TSD in our build, and one more than one occasion, we’ve rolled more heads than we want. You almost always have more Gyarados than you need, and you never want to pull out more Magikarp than necessary. I do use one or two water energy in my build, but I have truthfully never used them. What do you think about Lunatone v. Registeel? Less retreat cost (against Flygon with memory berry or Luxray, for example) might help. I do not use Toxicroak G, as it is relatively easy to do 110 without it. Do you think it’s still worth the space?

I have not tested this against Blaziken, but it does well against other SP builds. Though I think that a well-built Gallade 4/Honchcrow with Luxray could prove difficult. What are your thoughts about changes to deal with Blaziken/other post-Worlds match-ups for Battle Roads?
quaziko

*deleted*
quaziko

You say you have a new list that is much better than your worlds choice…would you mind sharing that? It would be interesting to see the changes you made, and why you made them.
yoyofsho16

I agree with Fabien. Cutting Registeel, Switch, and Night Maintenance were bad ideas… and taking out Cynthia’s was a REALLY bad idea.

With running 4 Pokemon Rescue/TSD, Cynthia’s will never be more important after Gyarados gets KO’d.

And to everyone saying “remove Memory Berry”…

Flail is pretty good. It’s a personal preference whether or not you want to use it.

Fabien Garnier

OK, so, I enjoyed watching some video about my deck. Thank you man =)

But I’m really sorry to say this, the decklist is really worst after you changed it. To be honest, I didn’t playtest before Worlds, and so, I know my decklist has many problems. But with my friend Kiwill we’ve worked on it after Worlds and we made some really great changes and the deck is much better now. But our changes are totally different from yours, and I just can’t understand most of your choices. The only one that I understand is adding Unown [G].

I won’t break most of your changes one by one because I’m not here to break your work, I know it’s not easy, but I just wanted to warn people that want to play Gyarados…

Just one silly question : did you playtest the deck a lot before and after you changed it ? If you did so, then I’m sorry and maybe this works better for you… If you didn’t, then I think it’s too bad.

And, I’m really sorry if this post can hurt, I really enjoy what you do, but it’s just because I know the deck very well… I don’t wanna hurt anybody, I jsut want people to know the truth !

Rob S.

Ian, thanks for a really interesting deck analysis. It is very useful and interesting to see a competitive deck described and dissected in detail like this. I have been playing a variation of this deck, thinking that my son or I might play it in Battle Roads (he’s a junior, and I believe he could do well with this — he played Beedrill in Nationals, and this might be a better play). I was thinking about the MT Gyarados and Memory Berry as well, but I think that it takes space away from the main attack, which is better served in my mind with Bucks, PlusPowers, or a third Crobat.

I think the fourth Sableye is worth thinking about if you can find the space — it is always better to start with Sableye. And the Unown G could help in the almost-certain Flygon-Machomp machup you can expect in BR. I’ve found that deck can be a tough matchup.

Fabien, I definitely agree about the Pokemon Rescue — we play one TSD in our build, and one more than one occasion, we’ve rolled more heads than we want. You almost always have more Gyarados than you need, and you never want to pull out more Magikarp than necessary. I do use one or two water energy in my build, but I have truthfully never used them. What do you think about Lunatone v. Registeel? Less retreat cost (against Flygon with memory berry or Luxray, for example) might help. I do not use Toxicroak G, as it is relatively easy to do 110 without it. Do you think it’s still worth the space?

I have not tested this against Blaziken, but it does well against other SP builds. Though I think that a well-built Gallade 4/Honchcrow with Luxray could prove difficult. What are your thoughts about changes to deal with Blaziken/other post-Worlds match-ups for Battle Roads?
quaziko

*deleted*
quaziko

You say you have a new list that is much better than your worlds choice…would you mind sharing that? It would be interesting to see the changes you made, and why you made them.
yoyofsho16

I agree with Fabien. Cutting Registeel, Switch, and Night Maintenance were bad ideas… and taking out Cynthia’s was a REALLY bad idea.

With running 4 Pokemon Rescue/TSD, Cynthia’s will never be more important after Gyarados gets KO’d.

And to everyone saying “remove Memory Berry”…

Flail is pretty good. It’s a personal preference whether or not you want to use it.

Ghoztmazta1

isnt night maintence better then pokemon rescue in this case? like i said before. i think adding water energys is a good idea and remove memory berry. :) Great job man! only the list was bringing a discussion :)
Ghoztmazta1

isnt night maintence better then pokemon rescue in this case? like i said before. i think adding water energys is a good idea and remove memory berry. :) Great job man! only the list was bringing a discussion :)
Ghoztmazta1

isnt night maintence better then pokemon rescue in this case? like i said before. i think adding water energys is a good idea and remove memory berry. :) Great job man! only the list was bringing a discussion :)
BENDINGSPOONS1

Hey Fabien thanks for the comments. I am not not a guy who takes offense to anything, unless they don’t have a strong argument behind it. Memory berry was just my solution for ohko’ing luxrays. I figure luxray is a big problem for this deck, and even more with the combination of lucario gl and crobat drops. After thinking about the deck list a bit more I wanna agree with you on the time space distortion vs pokemon rescue….

TSD is not a bad card after your first gyarados die, and here’s why..

chances are (after your gyarados is KO’d you will have a gyarados, sableye/some basic/ and a magikarp in the discard pile. Even if you flip all three heads, you can get your stuff back without pulling double magikarp.)And Every time a gyarados gets knocked out, you avoid getting double magikarp.
BENDINGSPOONS1

Hey Fabien thanks for the comments. I am not not a guy who takes offense to anything, unless they don’t have a strong argument behind it. Memory berry was just my solution for ohko’ing luxrays. I figure luxray is a big problem for this deck, and even more with the combination of lucario gl and crobat drops. After thinking about the deck list a bit more I wanna agree with you on the time space distortion vs pokemon rescue….

TSD is not a bad card after your first gyarados die, and here’s why..

chances are (after your gyarados is KO’d you will have a gyarados, sableye/some basic/ and a magikarp in the discard pile. Even if you flip all three heads, you can get your stuff back without pulling double magikarp.)And Every time a gyarados gets knocked out, you avoid getting double magikarp.
yoyofsho16

I think that adding 1 Energy Gain and 1 or 2 Cyrus’s Conspiracy wouldn’t be a bad choice here, either, making a semi-SP oriented engine, and it could make the Toxicroak drop a one turn, surprise ordeal.
yoyofsho16

I think that adding 1 Energy Gain and 1 or 2 Cyrus’s Conspiracy wouldn’t be a bad choice here, either, making a semi-SP oriented engine, and it could make the Toxicroak drop a one turn, surprise ordeal.
nardd

I tend to run 4 pokemon rescue and 1-2 night maintenance. Usually you will have a gyarados on hand when the active one sinks, so most of the time you can just use the rescue for that single magikarp. The night maintenance are good for getting back sniped claydols/gyarados if needed, but I try to save the rescue for when I need just a quick, CONSISTENT magikarp.

You could just discard the sableyes and small things you get after starting via lunatone/regi, and just pick those up with the TSD like you said, but I really prefer the consistency and price of pokemon rescue.
nardd

I tend to run 4 pokemon rescue and 1-2 night maintenance. Usually you will have a gyarados on hand when the active one sinks, so most of the time you can just use the rescue for that single magikarp. The night maintenance are good for getting back sniped claydols/gyarados if needed, but I try to save the rescue for when I need just a quick, CONSISTENT magikarp.

You could just discard the sableyes and small things you get after starting via lunatone/regi, and just pick those up with the TSD like you said, but I really prefer the consistency and price of pokemon rescue.
BENDINGSPOONS1

i should also make note that even if you guys went 3 pokemon rescue 1-2 time space distortion that’s fine too. I don’t expect everyone to dish out a lot of money just to get 4 TSD.

The energy gain idea for the toxicroak g sounds good. I would just need to fidn the room to play two cyrus’s conspiracy…
BENDINGSPOONS1

i should also make note that even if you guys went 3 pokemon rescue 1-2 time space distortion that’s fine too. I don’t expect everyone to dish out a lot of money just to get 4 TSD.

The energy gain idea for the toxicroak g sounds good. I would just need to fidn the room to play two cyrus’s conspiracy…
Xicious

I don’t expect people to dish out money for TSD because it’s the worst possible addition to the deck. You run 4 Gyrados even if your main Gyrados gets knocked out it should be rather easy for you to find another one, in which case the ONLY pokemon you want out of the discard is 1 magikarp.
Xicious

I don’t expect people to dish out money for TSD because it’s the worst possible addition to the deck. You run 4 Gyrados even if your main Gyrados gets knocked out it should be rather easy for you to find another one, in which case the ONLY pokemon you want out of the discard is 1 magikarp.
Xicious

Also if you roll 3 heads on tsd you have to take all 3 if available.
Xicious

Also if you roll 3 heads on tsd you have to take all 3 if available.
khen luu

Totally agreed with yoyofsho16. gyarados and SP mix is the ‘new gyarados’.

4 pkm rescue is a must (imo).

any other change is personal reference.

for example;

i like to play with 4-3 gyarados line ( with the night maintenance).
khen luu

Totally agreed with yoyofsho16. gyarados and SP mix is the ‘new gyarados’.

4 pkm rescue is a must (imo).

any other change is personal reference.

for example;

i like to play with 4-3 gyarados line ( with the night maintenance).
khen luu

Totally agreed with yoyofsho16. gyarados and SP mix is the ‘new gyarados’.

4 pkm rescue is a must (imo).

any other change is personal reference.

for example;

i like to play with 4-3 gyarados line ( with the night maintenance).
Ghoztmazta1

A, now i get it. Night maintence is not really that good i thaught xD

But anywa, i might like the idea to make this a Semi SP deck. i myself run a Semi SP deck and it is pretty good. My suggestion would be remove Claydol line and Pachirisu and add any SP pokemon(s) and some energy gain and a energy to that pokemon.
Ghoztmazta1

A, now i get it. Night maintence is not really that good i thaught xD

But anywa, i might like the idea to make this a Semi SP deck. i myself run a Semi SP deck and it is pretty good. My suggestion would be remove Claydol line and Pachirisu and add any SP pokemon(s) and some energy gain and a energy to that pokemon.
Ghoztmazta1

A, now i get it. Night maintence is not really that good i thaught xD

But anywa, i might like the idea to make this a Semi SP deck. i myself run a Semi SP deck and it is pretty good. My suggestion would be remove Claydol line and Pachirisu and add any SP pokemon(s) and some energy gain and a energy to that pokemon.
Ghoztmazta1

A, now i get it. Night maintence is not really that good i thaught xD

But anywa, i might like the idea to make this a Semi SP deck. i myself run a Semi SP deck and it is pretty good. My suggestion would be remove Claydol line and Pachirisu and add any SP pokemon(s) and some energy gain and a energy to that pokemon.
Master Entei

I can’t really say much about the deck because I haven’t tested it, and I’ve only played against it two times. Always nice to see a rogue do good at Worlds. :)

Instead, I’ll rant about the quality of the video. I think you should get a mic or something to improve the sound, it would also reduce the amount of background noise and the echo. I’ve got to focus 100% to hear what you’re saying, partially because English isn’t my first language. The sound quality is good enough on the other videos, so maybe it’s just the room you are in… go back to the room you’ve done your other videos in/the room Adam’ his videos in or get a mic, that would be much better. :) Not wanting to be mean to you or anything(:P), and thanks for the vid!
Master Entei

I can’t really say much about the deck because I haven’t tested it, and I’ve only played against it two times. Always nice to see a rogue do good at Worlds. :)

Instead, I’ll rant about the quality of the video. I think you should get a mic or something to improve the sound, it would also reduce the amount of background noise and the echo. I’ve got to focus 100% to hear what you’re saying, partially because English isn’t my first language. The sound quality is good enough on the other videos, so maybe it’s just the room you are in… go back to the room you’ve done your other videos in/the room Adam’ his videos in or get a mic, that would be much better. :) Not wanting to be mean to you or anything(:P), and thanks for the vid!
Master Entei

I can’t really say much about the deck because I haven’t tested it, and I’ve only played against it two times. Always nice to see a rogue do good at Worlds. :)

Instead, I’ll rant about the quality of the video. I think you should get a mic or something to improve the sound, it would also reduce the amount of background noise and the echo. I’ve got to focus 100% to hear what you’re saying, partially because English isn’t my first language. The sound quality is good enough on the other videos, so maybe it’s just the room you are in… go back to the room you’ve done your other videos in/the room Adam’ his videos in or get a mic, that would be much better. :) Not wanting to be mean to you or anything(:P), and thanks for the vid!
Master Entei

I can’t really say much about the deck because I haven’t tested it, and I’ve only played against it two times. Always nice to see a rogue do good at Worlds. :)

Instead, I’ll rant about the quality of the video. I think you should get a mic or something to improve the sound, it would also reduce the amount of background noise and the echo. I’ve got to focus 100% to hear what you’re saying, partially because English isn’t my first language. The sound quality is good enough on the other videos, so maybe it’s just the room you are in… go back to the room you’ve done your other videos in/the room Adam’ his videos in or get a mic, that would be much better. :) Not wanting to be mean to you or anything(:P), and thanks for the vid!
PokePockets

My little brother built this a little bit ago. This deck is sick. It sets up great, it gets the damage out quick, and it’s hard to beat once it gets completely set up.

Props for this awesome deck Fabien
PokePockets

My little brother built this a little bit ago. This deck is sick. It sets up great, it gets the damage out quick, and it’s hard to beat once it gets completely set up.

Props for this awesome deck Fabien
PokePockets

My little brother built this a little bit ago. This deck is sick. It sets up great, it gets the damage out quick, and it’s hard to beat once it gets completely set up.

Props for this awesome deck Fabien
PokePockets

My little brother built this a little bit ago. This deck is sick. It sets up great, it gets the damage out quick, and it’s hard to beat once it gets completely set up.

Props for this awesome deck Fabien
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