Underground Updates: A New Twist

Sounds pretty awesome *thumbs up*

looks good to me, I'm starting to look forward to this Adam. I don't know how I feel about an exclusive forum, but I suppose it will give a better place for more dedicated players to discuss stuff. Does paying by the article give you access to the forum? If I bought access to one article would I have the clearance to view the private forum?

but if it costs money some of us juniors cant access it

Dude did you even read what the article is about? Or did you just go “Oh not what I want I'm gonna bitch about it”?

True, but that's exactly why there are Junior/Senior/Master divisions in POP. To do their best to separate those who have money to spend on this game, and those who do not… It's the best POP can do without asking everybody to show their budgets and declare how much money they make and stuff. =

However, I do have a suggestion for you. =] If you're able to make some friends at a local league, you might be able to find a Senior or a Master who will be willing to share some premium articles for you. =] Given your position, I think this might be a good way of going about for you. =]

Hope this helps! ^^

-Sky

I found this article irrelevant, since it is not about the game, hence this “:/” face. I don't really see why you think I am not allowed to express my disappointment. I am not breaching any site rules, nor do I find the comment offensive or amoral in any way. The reason for my disappointment is simply that I enjoy the usualy high quality articles here nearly every day. Thus, finding an article like this is disappointing, which I express with a “:/”. You are really not allowed to decide if I am allowed to “come and complain”.
If the site owner feels as strongly, I am sure he will ban me from the site. However, I don't think he minds that much. The reason most people have a comment section after their articles is too read what people thought of it.

Alright.. I guess that logic makes good sense. And I agree with you on that. I guess I slightly got out of hand here, most likely because I've been seeing many people who just complain and post negatively on this site (such as saying “This decklist is horrible! here's a totally different strategy to use with the same cards, basically butchering your article!”) and the such. That, or I notice them more because negativity always stands out more. Therefore, I would like to apologize for my comment. I am not a moderator, it was not in my place to say this. I also know from experience that arguing over the Internet is senseless, and if I participate in the argument, I'm just as low as the other. However, my intentions were never to cause an argument… ^_^” :P My objective was to reduce negativity… But by trying to do so, I possibly caused more. So I'm sorry about that.. ^_^”

I actually think that having the comments (or at least some of them) publicly visible is a good way to generate interest in the articles. Yeah, you don't want to give too much away, but you also want people to feel like there is something interesting going on behind the curtain. Maybe they ought to pay to join the party.

totally agree with all of this. =] I'm thinking of maybe getting a shared premier or something with my friend. We're like a duo who've been in the game for three years together. =]

Actually, I would say that the article is placed perfectly. If you look at the home page of 6prizes, there's a blue navBar and a gray navBar. In the gray one, there's a News section. By going in there, you'll see that this is the first article that comes up. The home page articles is a collection of all the articles of the site. So since it englobes all the articles, it included this one.

Having that said, I'd say that this article is perfectly placed. =]

i was the one that commented about tokens, or what you now call coupons. very cool haha.

I am definitely not liking this idea. I don't want to pay money for articles on the internet. I'd pay a small fee (like a dollar an issue to cover stamps and paper cost) for a newsletter I could hold, but definitely not anything for something on the internet. I personally think that this is a bad way for the site to go.

Definitely! That's the way to do it, I really think this should be treated as a social thing.

Yup 1 month free trial for everyone. I agree you should see what you're getting before making a commitment.

I can't give any prices yet as we are still over a month away from this happening. I'm aiming to open things up after Worlds, in September I guess. I don't want to give any price quotes until I'm sure of what it will be.

I will purchase software and start setting everything up though, maybe even this weekend.

Hey Robert! I don't really know what the deal is with copyright and trademark laws. I think it's ok to use card images. I have some old Pojo magazines and they used images without and issues I think…they cover does say “unofficial” magazine so I guess that's the disclaimer.

No pricing yet, we still have over a month until this opens up. I don't want to name a price and then change it in that time period (causing outrage :P).

The newsletter wasn't going to have art, it was going to be black and white printed on computer paper. Costs to do it more extravagantly would have been way too much.

I do still think it's cool to get something in the mail, but with how information changes so quickly these days I don't think it's the best option for this. With this setup, someone could write a column and it could get posted to the site that day.

Otherwise you might have to wait 2 weeks to get that information in the mail, and it might not be as of much use.

No pricing yet, we have over a month till this opens and I don't want to name I price I'll regret naming later.

Hi awesomedude,

I would suggest making friends with a Senior or Master player at your league and getting a subscription with them.

Drewwww!

I think the separate forums will need to be exclusive to give the best environment for Underground members to talk about decks and stuff. The writers will also be included there to help people and discuss their writing more in depth.

Right now I'm thinking that you will need a full subscription to get access to those forums…all premium articles on the site will be discussed there, so if you buy 1 article I don't think you should basically get access to everything.

Thanks Pikey!

Hey adam,
I rarely post on here, but I always find the articles and forums on sixprizes to be by far the best. There is also a greater sense of community on this site from what I see. Anyways, this project sounds like a great idea and I can't wait to join in. I havent played too much this year but I think after worlds when this site goes up it will give me more of a reason to go out and play again. I just wanted to say thanks and good job with the site.

To be honest, the current working idea sounds like another money-grab from the well-informed players.

I liked the original idea mainly because of how attractive a tangible pokemon newsletter would be. Remove that key aspect (tangibility) and you're left with another hidden-forum-like, members-only, money grab.

I just don't see players' advice and lists being worth the kind of money this endeavor is turning into. I think I'd rather play a good MMO and have fun for countless hours each month than pay for a few articles where the “well-informed” players tell me the same information I know. I guess I gotta side with what some other guy said in another underground discussion; the current discussions you see online, even the articles written by some of writers signed up for this project on sites like Pokegym, aren't worth paying for in their current state. If you expect people to spend money on it, it better be leaps and bounds better than those articles, and I don't think you can guarantee it will be every time.

Another issue I have: Lists change. The current “popular” list one week before a tournament can be drastically different the week after the tournament. Not only are you encouraging what many players frown upon (netdecking) but you set un-experienced players up to disappointment when they walk into a tournament feeling high and mighty about their 'current best list' version of a deck just to get told by another player that their list is so last week. I just don't see how you can charge money for something that doesn't guarantee success and is always changing. Actually, I know how (easy) you can charge money for it, because next week, when the list changes, the well-informed players don't have to feel insecure about helping their opposition at an event and can laugh at the people that paid money for an old list.

I do wish you luck in your endeavor, but I think you're definitely neglecting a huge player-base and possible consumer-base by catering only to the most competitive of players. Only they will be willing to spend money on 'pro' lists. And I'd bet that the huge player-base that your neglecting played a large role in the popularity and growth of this site.

Just my 2 cents. Someone has to be negative, might as well do it myself.

Oh cool! =] Alright, thanks a bunch man! ^^

Hi Matthew,

I respect, and think I understand your opinion here. I also don't think you're being particularly “negative”, you're simply trying to see both sides of the coin; which, as opposed to being negative, is something I very much encourage.

In my opinion, the main objective of the paid section of 6p would not be to “give out pro deck lists” so players can win. There are many, many more factors that should come into play when planning a deck for a tournament. You need to know and understand how the metagame works, know what decks are mainly being played in order to know what to expect at a tournament, how to play against them, and therefore reduce your misplays as much as possible, and know what kind of deck feels best for you by testing all of them out yourself.

Sure, decklists are useful because they guide you in a certain direction. But every player has their own style of playing, and everyone's version of a given decklist will vary from person to person. The reason for this is because everyone has an ever so slightly different point of view on many factors of the metagame, and depending on your location, you will play against different decks.

The points of the articles are therefore not to simply give out “pro decklists”, but to bring you one step closer to understanding the metagame better, knowing your cards, and knowing what feels best for you to play at a tournament.

I have to agree however that the paid section of the site certainly isn't for everyone. But if you feel you can profit from the paid section because you know how to use it properly, then I think one should at least give it a go. =]

Furthermore, I know and understand that usually, discussions over the Internet aren't that great. However, there's a difference between a paid forum and a non-paid one. The paid forum, anyone can post on it very easily. The non-paid forum is reserved for players dedicated enough to want to pay for it, and therefore who want to know they will be with other dedicated players.

I find the paid section of this site will pretty much be useful for players who like to discuss decks, learn about more decks, the cards, the metagame, combos, counters, and basically who like to interact and participate in the community of the Pokemon TCG. =]

You'd be surprised. o3o

Hey Eric, thanks for the comment and support! I am looking forward to it
too. :)

Hey Matthew, thanks for the input.

I am not sure what you mean by money-grab, can you elaborate on that?

I agree that the tangible newsletter would be really cool, but there are
just so many constraints tied to it. The more I looked into it, the more I
realized how difficult it would be to pull off.

One of the biggest issues is that non United States players will have to
receive some kind of digital copy no matter what. This means that I will
have to physically mail half the people a newsletter, then e-mail the other
half the newsletter but get protection software that costs $100 a month to
protect the PDF file.

The overhead is huge to do that. $100 a month plus about $2.50 to $3 per
person for shipping costs in the U.S. That easily adds up. Instead I can
just buy a few hundred dollars worth of software and be good for years if
need be.

The quality of the articles will be very high, otherwise I will scrap the
project. If people are unhappy, I will give them full refunds. The
articles you see good players writing publicly are not the same quality you
would see if they were getting paid to write. There is a difference. John
Kettler commented on this in one of the past updates.

I see what you mean about rather playing a MMO, but a lot of people play the
Pokemon TCG instead of doing something like that. This is their hobby.

Your point about a list becoming obsolete one week later is another reason
why this will be better online. If it was a mailed newsletter every two
weeks, there would be even more issues with that type of thing. With the
additional forum for Underground members, they can be kept up to date with
the latests findings.

If I have the time to start playing again, I'll make sure people are kept up
to date with the latest advancements even if the writers develop tight lips.

This has been geared towards competitive players from the beginning,
otherwise I would let anybody write and it would just be a community type
mailed newsletter. I want to help people that want to become better at this
game.

Thanks for the input though, I'm sure many people hold views similar to
yours Matt. :)

Best,

Adam

Basically the site will look the same, but premium articles will get a tag
that says “Underground Content” (like how Featured Articles now have a
tag/banner at the top).

There will be a preview of the article like all articles on the site, but if
you click it to read, you will not be able to access it unless you have a
subscription (or I deem it a freebie article).

I am planning for 2 Underground articles/columns to be released each week.
Probably every Monday and Friday, something like that. That means a total
of about 8 columns from different writers each month.

Splitting it up with your testing group is the way to go man, I know that's
what I'd be doing. :)

-Adam

Haha thanks man, I'll get it edited and on the site soon. :)

There is one more post about this stuff coming up soon unfortunately (I
didn't write it though!!!)

Kool Beenz thank adam

I can't believe you guys are being so polite to me after my overly negative and slightly rude post. What has this world come to?

My feelings on the topic aren't as strong as they were when I posted my original comment. I was disappointed that the newsletter idea had been trashed. I guess when the idea was first proposed, I imagined all the great things that could have come from it, and to see it turn into another hidden-forum, pro-boards, pay site just tipped me off the edge.

There is not a good quality Pokemon printed item on the market as we speak. The Pokemon Company produced an one-issue “Premiere Issue” Pokemon Official Magazine, and it was fantastic, and then they never made another issue. Since then, I've searched everywhere for a good replacement, and I guess I thought your newsletter could somehow fill that spot.

You have ideas for your product and you know what is best for it better than a random stranger. The best thing I can do is wish you best of luck with it, and hope it is as much of a contribution to the pokemon community as this site is. Because this site is one of the best things to happen to the game in a while. So many sites have come and gone (or are lingering around accomplishing nothing) and I think SixPrizes has made a decent name for itself, and I hope it keeps growing as time goes on.

Sounds like u got all of the kinks figures out the cant wait to read the aricles.

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