Revisiting an Old Friend

Written by | August 5, 2011 | 37 comments | 3,904 views | Rating: +21

I’m here to talk about what you can do to win the mirror match up (or the match up against ReshiBoar since it is very similar). There will be lists and explanations. I hope that some nugget in here finds a home in your deck.

I will also comment on how to turn some of the other game in your favor.

I will not go in depth on how to play the deck in general. I have already addressed this a few times. Also, PokemanDan just put out an article about how to play this deck.

Unfortunately, I am not going to Worlds. I did not get an invite and I do not have the money to risk on trying to grind in. However, I have done quite a bit of playtesting with people. I am just fascinated by the game right now, and a Junior from our league is going to Worlds. So, I’ve been working with him to get ready.

Remember, I am not perfect in any way. Some of the lists and techs that I will be posting are a little farfetched. I know this. I am just sharing with all of you my ideas on this.

First and foremost, let’s start with a couple of basic lists.

My 9-0 Swiss List
Pokemon – 184 Reshiram
3 Cyndaquil HGSS
2 Quilava HGSS
3 Typhlosion Prime HGSS
2 Vulpix UL
2 Ninetales HGSS
1 Cleffa CL
1 Tyrogue CL		 Trainers – 284 Pokémon Collector
4 Pokémon Communication
4 Professor Oak’s New Theory
2 Engineer’s Adjustment
4 Junk Arm
2 Rare Candy
3 Pokémon Reversal
2 Defender
3 PlusPower		 Energy – 1412 Fire Energy
2 Double Colorless Energy

I know that my list is unorthodox, but it works. I actually have received quite a bit of grief over this list since nationals. On forums and private message boards across the internet people have felt obliged to call me a scrub, n00b, the luckiest person in the history of Pokémon to go 9-0 with this list, an idiot, stupid, a liar (they didn’t believe that this was the actual list from Nats, apparently it was too crappy), etc.

They have critiqued everything from the Defenders, to no Energy Retrieval, to no Revive, to only two Rare Candy, to Engineer’s Adjustment. Take from their complaints what you will. I just wanted to put it out there that a sizable number of people do not like my decklist. That’s cool. It’s all fine by me.

I’m going to start by commenting on some interesting things that I have been doing with this list. I have been playing with the idea of taking the Engineer’s Adjustment out. It is an extremely strong card in the mid-game, but it can be too unreliable in the early-game.

I have experimented with Cheerleader’s Cheer, Copycat, and Judge in its place. I think my favorite is Judge. If my hand is so bad that I cannot do anything early in the game, getting four different cards is better than sitting on the dead hand. Also, while it is not the speediest card in the format (read Sage’s or Juniper), it slows down your opponent. So, you are trading accelerating your set up for slowing down your opponents. In my book, they are roughly equal.

I will never, ever run Juniper in tyRam. I have tested this quite a bit. The resources in this deck are just too important to discard. Against bigger decks you literally need every single Reversal, Junk Arm, and PlusPower. I will not risk losing one of those resources early in the game. I have similar, but less strong, feelings about Sage’s Training in this deck.

Another Standard List
Pokemon – 184 Reshiram
3 Cyndaquil HGSS
2 Quilava HGSS
3 Typhlosion Prime HGSS
2 Vulpix UL
2 Ninetales HGSS
1 Cleffa CL
1 Tyrogue CL		 Trainers – 294 Pokémon Collector
4 Pokémon Communication
4 Professor Oak’s New Theory
2 Professor Juniper
4 Junk Arm
3 Rare Candy
3 Pokémon Reversal
3 PlusPower
1 Energy Retrieval
1 Revive		 Energy – 1313 Fire Energy

This list is a little bit closer to what most people are playing. I have taken out the DCE and added one more Fire Energy. I also removed the Defenders and added another Rare Candy. I also added a single Revive and a single Energy Retrieval to make your resources go further.

Also, Engineer’s has been replaced with Juniper. Most players are running Juniper in this deck (except Pram according to his comments on TheTopCut testing videos). I do not agree with it, but hey, to each their own.

These two lists are designed for speed and consistency. The purpose of these lists are to get your Pokémon out quickly and produce continuous pressure with streaming Reshiram. The deck has ample access to PlusPower and Reversal to get OHKOs on big Pokémon or take cheap prizes from the bench.

This deck has become extremely popular since US Nats. It has an extremely good match up against MEGAZORD (stage 1: Yanmega/Donphan/Zoroark), and a favorable match up against Primetime (MegaJudge: Yanmega/Magnezone). It has a 50/50 match up against pretty much everything else save water.

Many people are likely going to show up at World’s running this deck. So, learning the mirror match is going to be extremely important. Normally the mirror match is decided by who can take the first prize or who has the last Reshiram standing.

So, the key to the mirror match is disrupting he Reshiram exchange in your favor, i.e. getting a OHKO while forcing your opponent into a 2HKO at least once during the game. The other option is to Reversal up their Typhlosions and take out their energy acceleration. There are a few ways to accomplish this.

Idea #1: A Thicker Typhlosion Line
Pokemon – 204 Reshiram
4 Cyndaquil HGSS
2 Quilava HGSS
4 Typhlosion Prime HGSS
2 Vulpix UL
2 Ninetales HGSS
1 Cleffa CL
1 Tyrogue CL		 Trainers – 284 Pokémon Collector
4 Pokémon Communication
3 Sage’s Training
3 Professor Juniper
3 Junk Arm
3 Rare Candy
3 Pokémon Reversal
3 PlusPower
1 Energy Retrieval
1 Revive		 Energy – 12 12 Fire Energy

Granted many people see this as less of a tech option, but as more of a standard play now. The point of this idea is to make your deck less susceptible to losing your energy accelerator. You can consistently be building a third Typhlosion. That way the loss of one Typhlosion is not the end of the world. This option also makes things easier against other decks that aim to take out your support Pokémon.

To be honest I have split feelings about this line up for Worlds. I think this is a very solid idea for post Worlds when Catcher is out. However, right now Reversal is so hit or miss, that I would prefer to take the gamble of playing just three Typhlosion for more flexibility in the rest of my list. I do not think that it is a bad way to go, it is just not my favorite way to do it.

Idea #2: Samurott
Pokemon – 194 Reshiram
3 Cyndaquil HGSS
2 Quilava HGSS
3 Typhlosion Prime HGSS
2 Vulpix UL
2 Ninetales HGSS
1 Cleffa CL
1 Oshawatt BW
1 Samurott Ability BW		 Trainers – 274 Pokémon Collector
4 Pokémon Communication
4 Professor Oak’s New Theory
2 Engineer’s Adjustment/Judge/Cheerleader’s Cheer
3 Junk Arm
3 Rare Candy
3 Pokémon Reversal
3 PlusPower
1 Energy Retrieval		 Energy – 1412 Fire Energy
2 DCE

This is a much more proactive approach to the mirror match. Samurott is Reshiram’s worst nightmare. The goal here is to get out a Samurott, power it up manually with DCE and a Fire Energy, and start wailing away. Reshiram 2HKOs Samurott and Typhlosion 4HKOs Samurott.

I have played around with this quite a bit. It is very hit or miss. In this format a 1-0-1 line is always inconsistent. There is just so much that can go wrong with that. A part can be prized, the basic can get Reversaled up (However, this is not the worst thing in the World. This normally means that you will get to take out a Reshiram when they just took out an Oshawatt and used up a Reversal. I would say that you definitely got the upper hand through that exchange.), etc.

If you do get it out it works very well if you can power it up manually. This is the key. If you have to use Afterburner on this to make it work, you have just turned Samurott into the equivalent of a 120 HP Pokémon that is KOd way too easily.

If you can get it out, this also works well against basically everything else in the format except Magnezone. It 2HKOs Yanmega, Yanmega 4HKOs it back. It OHKOs Donphan Prime and is 2HKOd back. It 2HKOs Zoroark, Zoroark 4HKOs it back. You get the idea.

Overall, I think that is a touch to inconsistent for my blood. Mad props if you make this work out well.

Idea #4: Increase the Recovery

I am not giving a list for this because it could come in so many different forms. The main point is to add Rescue Energy, Revive, or Flower Shop Lady to essentially increase the number of Reshiram you have to utilize over the course of the game.

To be honest, the best option here is Revive. Not only can it get back Reshiram, it can get back other basics that might have been KOd earlier in the game.

Idea #5: Zoroark
Pokemon – 214 Reshiram
3 Cyndaquil HGSS
2 Quilava HGSS
3 Typhlosion Prime HGSS
2 Vulpix UL
2 Ninetales HGSS
1 Cleffa CL
2 Zorua BW
2 Zoroark BW		 Trainers – 254 Pokémon Collector
4 Pokémon Communication
4 Professor Oak’s New Theory
2 Engineer’s Adjustment/Judge/Cheerleader’s Cheer
3 Junk Arm
3 Rare Candy
3 Pokémon Reversal
2 PlusPower		 Energy – 1412 Fire Energy
2 DCE

This idea is also gaining a decent amount of traction in some circles. The point is to utilize Zoroark’s Foul Play to copy Blue Flare and score revenge KOs.

I completely understand this idea, but I also completely do not like it. It just has not worked out for me. There are plenty of people who will tell you different. My advice is to try it out. I hope that it works for you.

Zoroark is just too frail for my tastes to be a tech, and make the deck to clunky.

It does work against other decks. It certainly helps out in the Magnezone match up because you can use Foul Play to Lost Burn three measly fire energy to OHKO Magnezone. This helps reduce the dependence on PlusPower.

Idea #6: Magcargo

If you remember back to my National’s report, I am borrowing this idea directly from Sidney. It was possibly the coolest tech in the whole tournament (in my opinion of course). I cannot take credit for it.

Pokemon – 214 Reshiram
3 Cyndaquil HGSS
2 Quilava HGSS
3 Typhlosion Prime HGSS
2 Vulpix UL
2 Ninetales HGSS
1 Cleffa CL
2 Slugma UD
2 Magcargo UD		 Trainers – 254 Pokémon Collector
4 Pokémon Communication
4 Professor Oak’s New Theory
2 Engineer’s Adjustment/Judge/Cheerleader’s Cheer
3 Junk Arm
3 Rare Candy
3 Pokémon Reversal
2 PlusPower		 Energy – 1412 Fire Energy
2 DCE

The point here is to use Magcargo’s Lava Flow attack. This attack has a base of 60 damage, but it does 20 more for each Fire Energy attached. So, for four Fire Energy it does 140 damage. That 140 damage can OHKO most things in this format including Magnezone, Yanmega, and Donphan Prime. If you use five Fire Energy it does 160 damage, which will take out those pesky Samurott and Tyranitar Primes in one hit.

Admittedly, this does not work in tyRam as well as it does in ReshiBoar. In ReshiBoar, you can drop as many energy as you want in a single turn onto Magcargo and OHKO anything you want. However, in tyRam it will force you to make some very difficult decisions about which Pokémon you should use your energy drops on.

I have only tested this a little bit. Overall, I do like it in tyRam. It offers you just another way to score OHKOs against most of the field.

Idea #7: Zekrom
Pokemon – 184 Reshiram
3 Cyndaquil HGSS
2 Quilava HGSS
3 Typhlosion Prime HGSS
2 Vulpix UL
2 Ninetales HGSS
1 Cleffa CL
1 Zekrom BW		 Trainers – 294 Pokémon Collector
4 Pokémon Communication
4 Professor Oak’s New Theory
2 Professor Juniper
4 Junk Arm
3 Rare Candy
3 Pokémon Reversal
3 PlusPower
1 Energy Retrieval
1 Revive		 Energy – 1313 Fire Energy

This tech does not offer tyRam too much in the mirror match up. You can always use it for Outrage, but that will not happen a lot without Defenders in this deck.

This tech is for flipping the water.dec match up in your favor. All of the major water attackers can OHKO Reshiram, but all of the main water attackers can be OHKOd by Reshiram with a single or double PlusPower drop, except Samurott.

The idea here is that you can drop Zekrom, promote it active, and let it take a shot from Samurott. Then you can attach two energy and OHKO that Samurott right back. This essentially buys you one turn per game. It forces the Samurott player into accepting a 2HKO on Zekrom versus a OHKO from Zekrom on Samurott.

It also can be used against Yanmega since Yanmega is weak to lightning.

Overall, I like this idea if Samurott is going to see a lot of play. However, I’m not sure how many Samurott will show up at Worlds. So, be careful if you want to use this idea.

Idea #8: Defender

This is in my normal list, but many people have left it in the rear view mirror. I still think that it is very good. It can keep you alive for one more turn.

Final Thoughts on tyRam

I honestly feel that tyRam is a great play for the Last Chance Qualifier and Worlds. Right now it really does not have an unfavorable match up against the best decks in the format. It is definitely favorable against Megazord (Yanmega/Donphan/Zoroark). It is even to favorable against MegaZord.

I think that Professor Juniper is NOT a good play in this deck. I know that a lot of people will argue that it is the best Supporter in here. In my opinion, there are just too many valuable pieces that risk being discarded. I can slightly see the argument if you play a 4-2-4 Typhlosion line.

I think that DCE and Defender are good plays in this deck, especially Defender. A lot of people complain that Defender is too easy to play around with Pokémon Reversal.  However, I think that this line of thinking is missing the boat. The key is resource management. If you are making your opponent waste their Reversals on moving Reshiram’s out of the way, that is one less Reversal to worry about later.

This deck is very fast, and consistent. If you play it at Worlds, I hope that it treats you well and you treat it well.

Let me remind everyone that these lists are not perfect. There are plenty of other people who have other lists. So, please try to not flame the article for the lists. Instead, focus your comments on the techs.

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  • Anonymous

    Where’s idea #3? :P

    I don’t know why 2 people disliked this so far. It offers quite a few different ways to play the deck that can all work. Overall it’s a great article.

    • Anonymous

      Oops. Sorry for skipping number 3

      • Anonymous

        Haters gonna hate? Maybe you just wrote a bad article lol…

        Posting a statement that a very simple and obvious strategy that has been around since Ruby and Sapphire is *your* deck, joking or not, isn’t gonna go well with some people.

        Generally, claiming a deck as your creation will never lead to good results on the internet. 

      • Anonymous

        fair, enough.

        i was just joking about the deck being mine. i thought that i made that clear enough. i do find it amazing that Cabd can claim Yanmega as his deck and no one hates on him because he played it last season. he is obviously just joking around with that, same here. if people are really offended by that then they just need to take a chill pill.

        as for the “haters gonna hate” comment. yes that might not be a good way to phrase it.

      • Anonymous

        For some reason, the “Reply” Button to airhawk’s post is broken, so placing my response here.  Man, the article was great.  People are just being upset to be upset, don’t worry about them.

        As for why I get away with calling yanmega/zone my deck, it’s because A: in my articles, I actually name the creator of the deck, Mr. Jim Roll of Flordia, and B, because my little shiki icon there is totally cute and keeps the flames away.  (Just kidding…. maybe)

        Oh, and the fact that I played it last format makes me one of the more experienced players with the deck.

      • Anonymous

        Good points Cabd. :)

        BTW the reply button is broken on your comment too.

      • Anonymous

        He wrote the first article about the deck idea, was flamed for it, stuck with it anyway, and went 9-0 at Nationals.  Now everyone talks about it like it’s an obvious tier 1 and pretends they’ve always know it to be one, even though few people even considered it before Nationals.  That’s enough reason for me.

  • Adam Bigott

    I really like how you went through different techs and how that would effect your tyram’s overall list. I wish people would write articles like that more often. 

  • Anonymous

    As unfortunate as it is, people are gonna be sensitive to the “my deck” comment. Most people can’t really read through the playful tone–due to recent events pretty much everyone is going to be a little cranky and sour at anything close to arrogance. 

    As far as the article itself, it’s great. 7 different lists with a well-written analysis and reasoning for each. It’s a great read, and as somebody else said, this kind of format for other decks would make for more strong articles. 

    • Anonymous

      Yeah maybe this was not a good time to try and be playful about that.

      I’ll try to be more sensitive to the context in the future.

      I also have realized that my type of sarcasm/playfulness does not come through well in writing.

      I should probably just stop trying to use it, because everytime I do someone comments on how it is rude, arrogant, stupid, etc. :)

      Thanks for the advice

  • Anonymous

    I like this article. It doesn’t tell me what I already know (you can discard Energy with Ninetales and then attach it with Typhlosion, gee, someone should make a deck out of this one!) but it gives different variants on what looks like a stale deck.

    I toyed around with Typhlosion/Reshiram a lot. I’m with the large crowd of people that ends up cutting DCE and  Engineer’s in favor of Juniper. I’ve always found it easy enough to get my hand down, and discarding a single Trainer or two is OK with 4 Junk Arm in the deck. Yeah, it’s a bit of a waste sometimes, but it gets you out of draw pass situations. Only rarely do I wish it was Engineer or Copycat, both of which have different disadvantages. That said, I do only run 2 Juniper.

    Never found DCEs very useful. Most of the things I can accomplish with it can be done equally or better with Afterburner, so I’d rather use those slots for thickening Typhlosion lines, or Revive, or a Rare Candy, etc.

    I like the idea of putting in Zekrom. Because it involves using Outrage on things weak to Lightning, and Afterburner increases Outrage damage. Samurott might not be common enough to warrant using it, but Yanmega and Kingdra are pretty common and even though Reshiram doesn’t do a bad job against those it’s nice to have for surprise value.

    • Anonymous

      Thanks

  • Anonymous

    I like this article. It doesn’t tell me what I already know (you can discard Energy with Ninetales and then attach it with Typhlosion, gee, someone should make a deck out of this one!) but it gives different variants on what looks like a stale deck.

    I toyed around with Typhlosion/Reshiram a lot. I’m with the large crowd of people that ends up cutting DCE and  Engineer’s in favor of Juniper. I’ve always found it easy enough to get my hand down, and discarding a single Trainer or two is OK with 4 Junk Arm in the deck. Yeah, it’s a bit of a waste sometimes, but it gets you out of draw pass situations. Only rarely do I wish it was Engineer or Copycat, both of which have different disadvantages. That said, I do only run 2 Juniper.

    Never found DCEs very useful. Most of the things I can accomplish with it can be done equally or better with Afterburner, so I’d rather use those slots for thickening Typhlosion lines, or Revive, or a Rare Candy, etc.

    I like the idea of putting in Zekrom. Because it involves using Outrage on things weak to Lightning, and Afterburner increases Outrage damage. Samurott might not be common enough to warrant using it, but Yanmega and Kingdra are pretty common and even though Reshiram doesn’t do a bad job against those it’s nice to have for surprise value.

  • Anonymous

    i would never call it your deck.
    its an obvious combo. i always preferred this build over emboar back in may and defended it in many posts.

    i thinking taking credit for an obvious deck is a dumb thing to do.
    make a good rogue and then take all the credit in the world.

    otherwise, great article.

    • Anonymous

      you right. it was a dumb thing to put in the article.

      i was just trying to mess around though. i honestly did not mean anything harmful by it.

      i am sorry.

  • Anonymous

    sweet brag bro

  • Anonymous

    Nice to finally see a proper mirror-match article – been waiting a while for those;) I’m afraid Catcher will haunt Tyram’s tomb though, but for now it’s a solid, easy-to-master deck, that when played correctly, supplies the user with several intense, yet successful matches.

  • Anonymous

    For what it’s worth, I recognize this as your deck. I mean if Cabd can claim Yanmega (which is by far the most popular card in the game at the moment), then you can claim TyRam.

    • Anonymous

      Indeed.  He can be the six prizes Tyram guy, because he played it before it was popular, just like how my hipster self played yanmega well before it broke the metagame. 

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XUUNX7VMZ4VU2VXABXPFNYONJQ Edgar F

        What was I three months ago, chopped liver? OUCH.

  • ricky

    man are some people dicks or what 0-9 is awesome dude

  • ricky

    dude samurott gets 3hkoed by typhlosion

    • Anonymous

      Sorry appaently I could’t count last night when I was typing this up… thanks for catching that!

  • ricky

    oh and zoroark also 3hkos back

  • Anonymous

    6P keeps putting up tyram decklists…which is good for me considering my first competitive deck is tyram =D

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_LLQ7RNGBFLVVD2CQYXDGL5T7MU Travis

    great article man and don’t appologize for calling it “your deck” i thought it was funny. I appreciate this article I just recently got my girlfriend into the game and this is the deck I helped her build so this article is very helpful for us :D

  • Anonymous

    Anyway you dice it, you wrote a great article. Kudos to you!

  • http://twitter.com/AlbertKnutsen Albert Knutsen

    Personally I just think everyone is still in flame-mode, so don’t take any of the negative comments about it being “your” deck too seriously :P, 

    Anyways… I, personally am running this deck for grinders with zekrom, and my metagame matchups so far have been excellent. Great deck, Insanely good article, and IMHO, it’s your deck all the way :P

  • Anonymous

    Thanks for another great article on Tyram with some really cool ideas in it! As a number of other users have already said this wasan awesome read, extremely well-written! Im just going to flash in my two cents on a couple of cards youve mentioned.
    1) Defender: I agree with your using it, love it in this deck. Its a card Ive had problems fitting in and Ive cut it a number of times but I definately think its worth a slot or two if you can fit it in
    2) Juniper: Again love this card. You certainly have to be careful playing them and I really recommend having some kind of recovery to go with(at the very least a single revive or FSL or the thicker Typhlosion line) but its an insane card for getting through youre deck to what you need. 
    3) Zekrom: This is a really cool idea, I used to use it in one of my Reshiboar builds but haven’t tried it in Tyram yet. Overall Im not sure if its necessarily “the play” even as a water counter but it was a lot of fun to use against water decks and certainly made my opponent, running Blastoise, think a bit.
    4) Engineers Adjustment: I really like this card as atleast a one-of in any Tyram deck. Its a great draw supporter and works really well as a supplement for Ninetales, or an early substitute if youve gotten Typhlosion and Reshiram out but dont have Ninetales up and running yet.

    Well like I said, just my opinion on those cards. Regardless keep up the great work with these articles! All of your Tyram articles have been great reads in my opinion and I hope to see more from you in the future!

  • pierre fortin

    Articles good but, i can guarantee a japanese kid thought of it first, so how bout you say a deck you discovered instead.

    other than that i really like your zekrom list it shows creativity.

    • Anonymous

      he said playfully so he was joking about the discovery of the deck

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XVNTS6D43ALI4GW74Q22WXNPZU Red Ados

    Hee hee I teched a  Samurott into my Reshiphlosion at league and everyone was like “Wha?”

    At first I doubted Reshiphlosion (a lot) but since you went 9-0 with it, I have to admit Ive had it built ever since. Great article man!

  • Anonymous

    Great article, and I thought the your deck thing was funny, no need to apologize. Some people just can’t take a joke right now.

  • Anonymous

    Just FYI,

    I had the article edited.

    Whether or not you agree with my previous jesting, I do not want to stir up more trouble right now online. We all know that the Pokemon community and 6P has had more than enough of that.

    Thanks,

    Andy

  • Anonymous

    nice love the analysis keep it up 
    check out legendpeice.blogspot.com

  • Anonymous

    go tyram!

  • Anonymous

    Wouldn’t Zekrom be good in TyRam because of it’s match-up against Kingdra, Yanmega, and Blastoise? It’s not just good against Samurott, which I agree with you on not seeing anyone use him that often. Since you would be using Outrage, You would have to have 4 damage counters vs. Yanmega Prime; 5 damage counters vs. Kingdra Prime and Blastoise; 6 damage counters against Samurott; so on and so forth. Thats is alot of afterburning, but he can 2HKO the 1st opposing Pokemon, and 1HKO the rest, even though he could easily be revenge killed.
    And I’m new to the game, so I don’t really know to much what I’m talking about XD