Gengar Stormfront SF Revisited

Written by | September 15, 2009 | 49 comments | 2,104 views | Rating: 0

I got finally got a chance to play Pokemon cards over the weekend with Ian and quaziko. I was set on testing Gengar variants until I could get something to work decently. I have tried a bunch of different things out, ranging from Honchrow G PL and Toxicroak G Promo to a beefed up Nidoqueen RR line and Crobat G PL with TGI Poke Turn and even Mewtwo LV.X LA, but I finally got a Machamp list to run the way I wanted it to.

Here is the list I pretty much settled upon:

Pokemon-24
3 Gastly SF
2 Haunter SF
3 Gengar SF
2 Machop SF
1 Machoke SF
2 Machamp SF
1 Nidoran F RR
1 Nidoqueen RR
2 Baltoy GE
2 Claydol GE
2 Unown G GE
1 Relicanth SV
1 Uxie LA
1 Chatot MD		 Trainers-24
4 Roseanne’s Research
3 Bebe’s Search
2 Luxury Ball
2 Cynthia’s Feelings
4 Poke Drawer +
4 Rare Candy
2 Broken Time-Space
2 Warp Point
1 Night Maintenance		 Energy-12
4 Psychic Energy
3 Fighting Energy
3 Call Energy
2 Multi Energy

Gengar Stormfront SF 18 Pokemon CardI had tried some other Machamp lists out and they are were just so incredibly clunky, but adding the Poke Drawer really seemed to straighten things out. I have to say that I am almost definitely taking Nidoqueen out however, it is just too easy of a target for so many Pokemon out there to drag active and slow you down.

Even in games that I didn’t have Poke Drawer in the list yet, whenever I opted to get Queen out it was more of a hindrance than anything. Both Blaziken FB and Luxray GL LV.X (which are popular Pokemon cards at the moment) pull it to the active position, and once it’s there, it’s kinda stuck. You have to either burn a Warp Point to free it or attack with it, but neither option is optimal.

It could be argued that getting Nidoqueen out against any deck that uses those Pokemon is a misplay, but I really think those cards are going to see so much play that it isn’t worth using Nidoqueen at this time.

In any matter, I would take it out for a 3rd Warp Point and either a Cynthia’s Feelings, Machamp LV.X, or maybe even a Mankey SV. Warp Point is awesome to get easy prizes with Machamp and to also switch it out of the active position after getting a knock out (your opponent will most likely promote a Pokemon with Unown G attached).

Poke Drawer + Stormfront SF 89 Pokemon CardThis is one of my top options for Battle Roads this upcoming weekend, not necessarily because I think it’s the best play at the moment, but because 1. I have not tested SP decks enough to be at all confident in a mirror match and 2. I don’t have all the Pokemon cards to build certain SP variants. Something like this will give me the best chance to win.

I will try to test out Gyarados SF in the next day or two and post my results from working with it. I also consider it a nice option because it seems fast and consistent, which are two key attributes I look for in decks.

One other card I would like to eventually try with Gengar is Starmie SF, but I doubt I will have sufficient time to test it before Battle Roads this weekend.

So what do you guys think of my list? I know it’s hands down better than this first list I tried, but do you have any other suggestions? Let me know and thanks for reading!

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  • J-Wittz

    this list is looking a lot cleaner and efficient :D. On an interesting side note, the techs along with the trainer line look a LOT like Gino Lombardi’s flygon list, minus the flygon and plus the gengar of course. Maybe it’s just the pokedrawer that makes me think that XP.

    I agree with you that the Nidoqueen should probably be dropped= it’s in straight gengar lists to maximize lifespan before fainting spell, and Flygon lists to increase lifespan of the lock, but in this kind of list I think you’d be more worthy investing in an anti-flygon tech. Machamp X, as you said, is a good choice to fit in this deck. Machamp X’s high risk, high damage attacking may be your only way to knock out your opponent’s active Flygon X– a hard force to deal with with a deck like this. As shown around worlds time, this deck has a VERY hard time vs. flygon deckout variants. There are many things for this deck to pull up with Palkia, and if you don’t get the unknown G’s in play quickly you could find yourself done for very quickly. Even Gengar can get locked if they drop their bench to almost nothing and use their unknown G’s correctly. Switches/ warp points are key vs. this matchup. Oftentimes I find I can’t win if I don’t get a donk or similar early game disruption.

    But this deck isn’t by any means anti-flygon– it’s anti-sp all the way :D. If SP is as big at battle roads as I predict (and I predict a pretty big spike, this will be great anti-metagame. While most SP run around 2 unknown G, if you get speedy setup they won’t be able to get them fast enough. Variations we looked at yesterday will be tough to deal with– the once popular, then abandoned, then popular again Toxi-tank is a big choice VS. both machamp and gengar. It hits machamp for massive weakness damage, possibly a KO with lucario GL. It can ko gengar through poison and prevent it from using its “fainting spell” ability. However, we shouldn’t forget the power of Gengar’s Poltergeist! Your opponent, being sp, will often have a hand full of trainers and supporters through Cyrus’ Conspiracy, often giving you the opportunity to hit for high damage. Yes, you can play around this, but much less easily with SP. Also, if your opponent is using toxitank, the stadium they play only increases our buddy relicanth’s damage potential. If they play a stadium, have a croak with a gain on it, and an unknown G or another gain on the bench, relicanth hits 90 snipe for one energy! G-champ was once considered “easy to play around” because unknown G, hand limitation, and the use of poison/crobat/uxie psychic restore to the bottom are all ways to deal with machamp/gengar’s first attack, poltergeist, and fainting spell, but I think relicanth adds another factor to the list that makes it impossible to completely “play around”.

    How’re the drawers going? I’ve never played them in anything except gigas, while my brother almost never leaves them out of a list. I feel like unless I have massive draw in the deck and have high probability of collecting 2 drawers, I’d rather play 4 pokedex. If you get the time, swap em out and see if it helps/hurts you! Another thing I like about dex is you don’t HAVE to play 4 like with drawer, you could try 3 dex plus one warp point or a third cynthia or machamp X or other silly combinations.

    I don’t know how I feel about this deck, but I feel like I’m in the same boat as you (with the whole NOT OWNING multiple copies of every great card ever made :P). I don’t even own the Gyrados to try that :P. So it looks like I’m either taking this, a palkia/luxray, palkia/blaziken, or luxray/blaziken, or a really fun old friend of mine that I’ll hold secret till the weekend. I’m going to 2, so if the first deck flops I’ll swap it! After all, it’s “just” battle roads! All in all, G-champ isn’t the best deck for the format, but it certainly isn’t the worst. It makes up for its lack of a flygon matchup with a strong one vs. SP.

  • J-Wittz

    this list is looking a lot cleaner and efficient :D. On an interesting side note, the techs along with the trainer line look a LOT like Gino Lombardi’s flygon list, minus the flygon and plus the gengar of course. Maybe it’s just the pokedrawer that makes me think that XP.

    I agree with you that the Nidoqueen should probably be dropped= it’s in straight gengar lists to maximize lifespan before fainting spell, and Flygon lists to increase lifespan of the lock, but in this kind of list I think you’d be more worthy investing in an anti-flygon tech. Machamp X, as you said, is a good choice to fit in this deck. Machamp X’s high risk, high damage attacking may be your only way to knock out your opponent’s active Flygon X– a hard force to deal with with a deck like this. As shown around worlds time, this deck has a VERY hard time vs. flygon deckout variants. There are many things for this deck to pull up with Palkia, and if you don’t get the unknown G’s in play quickly you could find yourself done for very quickly. Even Gengar can get locked if they drop their bench to almost nothing and use their unknown G’s correctly. Switches/ warp points are key vs. this matchup. Oftentimes I find I can’t win if I don’t get a donk or similar early game disruption.

    But this deck isn’t by any means anti-flygon– it’s anti-sp all the way :D. If SP is as big at battle roads as I predict (and I predict a pretty big spike, this will be great anti-metagame. While most SP run around 2 unknown G, if you get speedy setup they won’t be able to get them fast enough. Variations we looked at yesterday will be tough to deal with– the once popular, then abandoned, then popular again Toxi-tank is a big choice VS. both machamp and gengar. It hits machamp for massive weakness damage, possibly a KO with lucario GL. It can ko gengar through poison and prevent it from using its “fainting spell” ability. However, we shouldn’t forget the power of Gengar’s Poltergeist! Your opponent, being sp, will often have a hand full of trainers and supporters through Cyrus’ Conspiracy, often giving you the opportunity to hit for high damage. Yes, you can play around this, but much less easily with SP. Also, if your opponent is using toxitank, the stadium they play only increases our buddy relicanth’s damage potential. If they play a stadium, have a croak with a gain on it, and an unknown G or another gain on the bench, relicanth hits 90 snipe for one energy! G-champ was once considered “easy to play around” because unknown G, hand limitation, and the use of poison/crobat/uxie psychic restore to the bottom are all ways to deal with machamp/gengar’s first attack, poltergeist, and fainting spell, but I think relicanth adds another factor to the list that makes it impossible to completely “play around”.

    How’re the drawers going? I’ve never played them in anything except gigas, while my brother almost never leaves them out of a list. I feel like unless I have massive draw in the deck and have high probability of collecting 2 drawers, I’d rather play 4 pokedex. If you get the time, swap em out and see if it helps/hurts you! Another thing I like about dex is you don’t HAVE to play 4 like with drawer, you could try 3 dex plus one warp point or a third cynthia or machamp X or other silly combinations.

    I don’t know how I feel about this deck, but I feel like I’m in the same boat as you (with the whole NOT OWNING multiple copies of every great card ever made :P). I don’t even own the Gyrados to try that :P. So it looks like I’m either taking this, a palkia/luxray, palkia/blaziken, or luxray/blaziken, or a really fun old friend of mine that I’ll hold secret till the weekend. I’m going to 2, so if the first deck flops I’ll swap it! After all, it’s “just” battle roads! All in all, G-champ isn’t the best deck for the format, but it certainly isn’t the worst. It makes up for its lack of a flygon matchup with a strong one vs. SP.

  • WDIF

    Did you test Pachirisu GE in this? It could combo with Relicanth but not so well against Unown G. You could Warp Point out your Machamp to Gengar and Warp out their Guarded Pokemon to a ‘Gained Pokemon, drop Pachirisu, retreat and Smash Short. But if you have Gengar in play they will probably be ridding their hand of tools.

    Off Topic: When Expert Belt is realeased you could force your opponent to either suffer more Poltergeist damege or attach Expert to a Pokemon to be KO’d for 2 prizes with Shadow Room/Flash Bites.

  • WDIF

    Did you test Pachirisu GE in this? It could combo with Relicanth but not so well against Unown G. You could Warp Point out your Machamp to Gengar and Warp out their Guarded Pokemon to a ‘Gained Pokemon, drop Pachirisu, retreat and Smash Short. But if you have Gengar in play they will probably be ridding their hand of tools.

    Off Topic: When Expert Belt is realeased you could force your opponent to either suffer more Poltergeist damege or attach Expert to a Pokemon to be KO’d for 2 prizes with Shadow Room/Flash Bites.

  • http://www.adamcapriola.com/ Adam Capriola

    @J-Wittz: Drawers worked extremely well in the handful of games I used them in the list. My theory was that since the deck has so many singles and different Pokemon in the it, that Drawer would really help to grab exactly what I need. The Drawers did just that and bailed me out big time.

    I hadn’t even touched the card since I used Kingdra early last year, but they worked very efficiently in this. It’s not too hard trying to get 2 early on, just try to hold one in your hand while you Cosmic Power.

    What was Gino’s Flygon like? I haven’t seen a list for it before.

    @WDIF: I did try Pachirisu in a different Gengar list, but I found it hard to use. I’d rather use that spot for other cards. I may try it out again later, but my first impressions were that it was just too techy.

    • J-Wittz

      the big things I noticed that separated his deck from the the 4x pokedrawer, 2x lux ball, pachirisu, and mostly trapinch RR instead of SW. He played for power and speed over decking. I think there might have been a couple pluspower in there, too . . .

  • http://www.sixprizes.com Adam

    @J-Wittz: Drawers worked extremely well in the handful of games I used them in the list. My theory was that since the deck has so many singles and different Pokemon in the it, that Drawer would really help to grab exactly what I need. The Drawers did just that and bailed me out big time.

    I hadn’t even touched the card since I used Kingdra early last year, but they worked very efficiently in this. It’s not too hard trying to get 2 early on, just try to hold one in your hand while you Cosmic Power.

    What was Gino’s Flygon like? I haven’t seen a list for it before.

    @WDIF: I did try Pachirisu in a different Gengar list, but I found it hard to use. I’d rather use that spot for other cards. I may try it out again later, but my first impressions were that it was just too techy.

    • J-Wittz

      the big things I noticed that separated his deck from the the 4x pokedrawer, 2x lux ball, pachirisu, and mostly trapinch RR instead of SW. He played for power and speed over decking. I think there might have been a couple pluspower in there, too . . .

  • Woodstock

    This list looks identical to a FlyChamp deck. Minus the 3-2-3 Flygon and adding in the 3-2-3 Gengar… But it’s all good, I like this deck a lot although I do think FlyChamp works better for the Free Retreat/SP Killing reasons.

    You also realize that you can only have 1 Luxury Ball in your discard pile? So you can’t even use the second one once you draw into it. (Which will be frequent with a Claydol out). Machamp Lv. X might be a possibility to think about, given you play it at the right time… otherwise it’s suicidal.

    • J-Wittz

      the 2nd lux ball just increases your chance of getting lux ball in general. I like having more than 2 copies of this in Kingdra the most because you can discard extra copies with his attack, but it does boost consistency in stage 2 decks that can fit it in.

    • http://www.adamcapriola.com/ Adam Capriola

      I put 2 just for speed purposes, there are so many different Pokemon in this I just wanted the ability to play a Luxury and a supporter in the same turn early on.

  • Woodstock

    This list looks identical to a FlyChamp deck. Minus the 3-2-3 Flygon and adding in the 3-2-3 Gengar… But it’s all good, I like this deck a lot although I do think FlyChamp works better for the Free Retreat/SP Killing reasons.

    You also realize that you can only have 1 Luxury Ball in your discard pile? So you can’t even use the second one once you draw into it. (Which will be frequent with a Claydol out). Machamp Lv. X might be a possibility to think about, given you play it at the right time… otherwise it’s suicidal.

    • J-Wittz

      the 2nd lux ball just increases your chance of getting lux ball in general. I like having more than 2 copies of this in Kingdra the most because you can discard extra copies with his attack, but it does boost consistency in stage 2 decks that can fit it in.

    • http://www.sixprizes.com Adam

      I put 2 just for speed purposes, there are so many different Pokemon in this I just wanted the ability to play a Luxury and a supporter in the same turn early on.

  • kiwill

    Interesting list. Never really liked this deck but I’m tempted to try it out again now :p
    Thanks!

  • kiwill

    Interesting list. Never really liked this deck but I’m tempted to try it out again now :p
    Thanks!

  • kiwill

    Interesting list. Never really liked this deck but I’m tempted to try it out again now :p
    Thanks!

  • Xicious

    J-wittz your posts have gotten to the point where I don’t read them do to how long they are. This makes me angry. Adam, nice post on this dinosaur of a deck. It was cool to see a blast from the past like this.

    • J-Wittz

      haha I get bored in/out of classes in college and have nothing better to do. One of these days I’ll write articles so you’ll have a reason to read the whole thing :P

    • J-Wittz

      haha I get bored in/out of classes in college and have nothing better to do. One of these days I’ll write articles so you’ll have a reason to read the whole thing :P

    • quaziko

      xicious, you’re just lazy. don’t bash thought-out posts, just because you rarely do them yourself :P

  • Xicious

    J-wittz your posts have gotten to the point where I don’t read them do to how long they are. This makes me angry. Adam, nice post on this dinosaur of a deck. It was cool to see a blast from the past like this.

  • Xicious

    J-wittz your posts have gotten to the point where I don’t read them do to how long they are. This makes me angry. Adam, nice post on this dinosaur of a deck. It was cool to see a blast from the past like this.

    • J-Wittz

      haha I get bored in/out of classes in college and have nothing better to do. One of these days I’ll write articles so you’ll have a reason to read the whole thing :P

    • quaziko

      xicious, you’re just lazy. don’t bash thought-out posts, just because you rarely do them yourself :P

  • Aoi Hoshihiro-Stroup

    Wow, this deck looks actually very similar to a list that I made with GeChamp; “clunkyness” is the nasty thing that always got in the way for me when I played this deck.
    It didn’t clunk all of the time, but it’s gross when you gotta figure out what to do with a Machoke, Ghastly, Gengar, a fighting energy, and an unown G or something.

    Props for the drawers, that’s a great idea, interestingly though, I like to alternate between drawers and blowers because blowers can be really key against some decks that have a big, juicy mama (if it’s a mother-based deck) that’s healing or a Rayquaza LA (if there are any decks still doing starkquaza), good ol Claydol, etc that you can pinpoint and KO with machamp because it’s great being able to pinpoint those typical basics or setups that people don’t always think will get picked on, or that cant be hit with Shadow Room because of an unown G on them.

    But with Luring Flame being the cute thing right now, I think many people are thinking twice about these hefty, big retreat pokemon that sit on their butts without a warp point.

    Ever try a dash of some old fashioned speedgar by adding 2 crobats and 3 Poketurns?
    Those can be great for the extra 10 Shadow Room needs to KO those pixies or extra 20 for those dols so they don’t get one more turn to Cosmic which can be so critical nowadays. =)
    GREAT LIST!

    • WDIF

      He mentioned Crobats and Poke Turns in the opening paragraph.

    • WDIF

      He mentioned Crobats and Poke Turns in the opening paragraph.

  • Aoi Hoshihiro-Stroup

    Wow, this deck looks actually very similar to a list that I made with GeChamp; “clunkyness” is the nasty thing that always got in the way for me when I played this deck.
    It didn’t clunk all of the time, but it’s gross when you gotta figure out what to do with a Machoke, Ghastly, Gengar, a fighting energy, and an unown G or something.

    Props for the drawers, that’s a great idea, interestingly though, I like to alternate between drawers and blowers because blowers can be really key against some decks that have a big, juicy mama (if it’s a mother-based deck) that’s healing or a Rayquaza LA (if there are any decks still doing starkquaza), good ol Claydol, etc that you can pinpoint and KO with machamp because it’s great being able to pinpoint those typical basics or setups that people don’t always think will get picked on, or that cant be hit with Shadow Room because of an unown G on them.

    But with Luring Flame being the cute thing right now, I think many people are thinking twice about these hefty, big retreat pokemon that sit on their butts without a warp point.

    Ever try a dash of some old fashioned speedgar by adding 2 crobats and 3 Poketurns?
    Those can be great for the extra 10 Shadow Room needs to KO those pixies or extra 20 for those dols so they don’t get one more turn to Cosmic which can be so critical nowadays. =)
    GREAT LIST!

    • WDIF

      He mentioned Crobats and Poke Turns in the opening paragraph.

  • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb kwisdumb

    This looks pretty standard, definitely better than the first list. I know you decided against it, but I’m a big fan of Crobats in this deck, just or the pixie snipe.

    Good job Adam!

  • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb kwisdumb

    This looks pretty standard, definitely better than the first list. I know you decided against it, but I’m a big fan of Crobats in this deck, just or the pixie snipe.

    Good job Adam!

  • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb kwisdumb

    This looks pretty standard, definitely better than the first list. I know you decided against it, but I’m a big fan of Crobats in this deck, just or the pixie snipe.

    Good job Adam!

  • http://www.adamcapriola.com/ Adam Capriola

    Actually I would consider dedicating 1 spot for a Crobat, just to help get that 1 easy prize. ;)

  • http://www.adamcapriola.com/ Adam Capriola

    Actually I would consider dedicating 1 spot for a Crobat, just to help get that 1 easy prize. ;)

  • http://www.sixprizes.com Adam

    Actually I would consider dedicating 1 spot for a Crobat, just to help get that 1 easy prize. ;)

  • PokePockets

    This looks like a pretty interesting list, even though I am not a big fan of GengChamp and could never see how it actually works. The PokeDrawers probably help out a lot, as I know the players who have played this say that the biggest decks weakness is in the deck it’s self (inconsistency and bad hands)

  • PokePockets

    This looks like a pretty interesting list, even though I am not a big fan of GengChamp and could never see how it actually works. The PokeDrawers probably help out a lot, as I know the players who have played this say that the biggest decks weakness is in the deck it’s self (inconsistency and bad hands)

  • pokefart

    Great deck I play the deck but with machamp lv x, and with a mewtwo lv x line.
    the mewtwo helps with the SP decks.

  • pokefart

    Great deck I play the deck but with machamp lv x, and with a mewtwo lv x line.
    the mewtwo helps with the SP decks.

  • Walrus

    I like 4 poketurns over the pokedrawers, seems quicker to me. That’s probably just cause I’m to impatient to wait for two pokedrawers.

  • Walrus

    I like 4 poketurns over the pokedrawers, seems quicker to me. That’s probably just cause I’m to impatient to wait for two pokedrawers.

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