DCLGar – A New Take on LostGar

Written by | May 6, 2011 | 19 comments | 2,574 views | Rating: -3

Since the inception of Gengar Prime and later the “gift” of Lost World, a lot of players have seen the LostGar meta-game as useless, while others have seen it as a viable competitive deck.

The problem is that it’s JUST TOO SLOW. That is a fact. Too much emphasis has been placed on “Hurl Into Darkness”, perhaps not the greatest move ever conceived, but is doable under the right conditions.

How are we to play a deck with staple cards in it, when we just don’t understand the pairing of Gengar Prime and Lost World? Today, I would like to share with you an answer to the LostGar conundrum. I’ve been using this list for about 2 weeks and is a fairly usable deck. I have been able to set up within a few turns. Now the list:

Pokemon – 18 

2 Gastly TM
1 Haunter TM
2 Gengar Prime TM
2 Zorua BW
2 Zoroark BW
3 Sableye UD
2 Smeargle UD
2 Darkrai & Cresselia LEGEND TM

 Trainers – 24 

3 Judge
2 Twins
3 Professor Oak’s New Theory
3 Professor Juniper
4 Pokemon Collector
3 Pokemon Communication
4 Lost World
2 Rare Candy

 Energy – 18 

6 Psychic
4 Darkness (Basic)
4 Darkness (Special)
4 Double Colorless

I personally feel that LostGar has been executed all wrong, and coming into the HGSS-on format we need something with a little bit more oomph.

Pokemon:

Sableye

The Undaunted Sableye has been over looked time and again, having only 60 HP. I feel its time to stop overlooking this little guy.

“Dark Hand” allows you to pull off a potential 50 damage if you can keep your hand size larger than your opponent’s. With this you can easily counter a Haunter or Gastly that’s setting up, but the focus isn’t on this attack ladies and gents.

Looking at “Pull Out”, we can take a card that we discarded, or was other wise sent to the discard pile. This attack is also great with Professor Juniper, letting you get back anything you need to play on your next turn.

Darkrai & Cresselia Legend

I know that some of you did not care for my last article on a legend deck, but lets face it – most of them are really playable (Entei & Raikou, Kyogre & Groudon, even Ho-Oh Legend) and yet they are cast aside, mostly due to loosing 2 prizes, but consider Expert Belt.

In the MD-on format, Expert Belt was widely used, when it came out, in all decks for that extra 20 HP and damage. It was played despite the extra prize.

Now that the rant is over, lets take a look here at “Lost Crisis”. Doing 100 damage and Lost Zoning a knocked out Pokemon. Call me stupid, but getting that Pokemon into the Lost Zone AND taking a prize is easy when all you have to do is send your Double Colorless into the Lost Zone. This should net you anywhere between 2-4 Lost Zoned Pokemon before it’s knocked out.

Gengar Prime

This is a card you don’t really want to run more than two of. Being a stage 2 and not doing very much damage, it’s quite susceptible to a knock out by almost anything from an Absol to a Zekrom.

Using the attack Hurl Into Darkness is its only redeeming quality unless you’re looking to spread damage, and if that’s the case, you should be playing Tyranitar Prime.

Zoroark

Lets just take a look at “Nasty Plot” – the real reason this card is in here. For just one energy, we get to take a look through our deck for any card. Teaming this up with Sableye and Smeargle UD and we have a pretty access to everything, excluding the Lost Zone of course.

You can choose to use “Foul Play”, but that is something I just wouldn’t recommend with this particular build unless you have the room to do so.

Judge

Most of the strategy involved with Lostgar is disruption. Going into an HS-on format the only real disruption we have comes in the form of Judge. Not only does this card give you the ability to get rid of a bad hand, it also allows you to slow down the opposition. This is vital for this deck and I feel that the high Judge count of 3 is fully justified.

Tips:

When playing a deck like Lostgar or Vilegar, it’s essential to remember what your focus is. Strategy is nothing without tactic, and tactic is nothing without focus. The same, of course, applies to all decks. In order to help you seize the advantage, here are a few pointers.

Sacrifice and The Mirror Match

Now some of you will see this as a golden list, The LostGar Bible if you will, but its far from perfect. Gengar Prime is a key card, but not the Key. It’s weakness to dark is a hindrance in a lot of cases and will more than likely get you a loss if you try to set it up right away.

The best thing to do in mirror matches is to start off with Sableye or Smeargle and work into Zoroark as early as possible. This gives you access to your deck, and trust me, you WILL need it.

With our Zoroark now out in full effect, searching out deck for what we need, it’s also important to remember that sometimes it’s necessary to let a town fall into enemy hands so that you can take the larger victory in the end.

That said, do not be afraid to let something sit in your hand for you opponent to Lost Zone in a mirror. Chances are it will only be one or two cards that you can afford to lose, so while they are checking out your hand every turn, Zoroark can turn it around and start the damage game on them if that is your only chance to win.

Zekrom and Reshiram – The Challengers…

It’s important to remember that the beasts from Black and White, Zekrom and Reshiram, are going to pretty much be techs in pretty much every deck. Best bet here? Foul play. I know I said not to use this attack unless you have to, but this is an instance where you have to.

Toss on a Special Darkness energy and go to work to one hit the opposing beast to oblivion. If you’re going against the much hyped ReshiBoar deck, just remember that Reshiram is the head of the deck – take that out and the rest will go with it.

Vileplume – The Four Letter Word

Playing Vileplume in a Gengar based deck in the upcoming format, in my opinion is insane. If you want to play trainer lock, do so without Gengar Prime.

A huge problem that I have seen is that Vileplume has become a standard pairing with Gengar Prime (or any Gengar for that fact), taking the focus off of what Gengar actually does and scattering the player’s attention to the four corners of the earth. In order to play a wining deck, don’t play like you don’t know what you’re doing.

With this build, we can now keep up a bit and not have to worry, at least in part, about taking prizes. The slower Black and White format should allow time for a Lost Zone set up and with Pokemon Communication, there should be no reason that you can’t set up a DCL or Gengar Prime within a few turns.

One last thing before end here: Legend Box is a no go. Someone commented on my previous article about leaving it out. It’s not in any of my lists for a reason and that is it just doesn’t work. It takes up too much room that could be used for useful cards and searching will always trump drawing.

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  • Anonymous

    go easy on the fighting weaknesses. donphan will be around to knock out every pokemon on your list unopposed. Also reshiram is not the head of reshiboar. If you knock out a boar (not that it will ever be active) you win the game. Reshiram cannot handle the manual energy attachment to get going and will severely fall in popularity when pokemon catcher is released. Four energy required to attack or retreat on Emboar… (ouch, better run switch or ssu).

  • Anonymous

    This deck is waaay too slow.

    “Looking at “Pull Out”, we can take a card that we discarded, or was other wise sent to the discard pile.”

    You’re wasting a turn getting something from your discard pile, allowing your opponent to get an easy prize with Donphan Prime, Zekrom, Reshiram, even Zoroark.

    “In the MD-on format, Expert Belt was widely used, when it came out, in
    all decks for that extra 20 HP and damage. It was played despite the
    extra prize.”

    Because people had more control over when to play expert belt– versus a legend card that took 3-4 turns to set up and relied on the random draw of Legend Box for a fast set-up. With insanely fast attackers like Garchomp C Lv.X that can set up in 1-2 turns consistantly, using Legends gave your opponent more of an advantage than yourself. Also, after you lost Zone your DCE, how are you going to consistently get out another DCE for Darkrai/Cresselia to attack again? You can’t search it out of your deck unless you have energy exchanger.

    Gengar Prime sends Pokemon to the Lost Zone much faster than DCL; You want at least 3 of these guys in your deck so you can easily Lost Zone your opponent while DCL sets up. Also because he can be easily knocked out, you for sure want more than 2.

    “Lets just take a look at “Nasty Plot” – the real reason this card is in here.”

    Wasting another turn…

    “Going into an HS-on format the only real disruption we have comes in the form of Judge.”

    Spiritomb TR shuffles your opponent’s hand while leaving your’s alone, Weavile and Houndoom UD forces your opponent to discard, Pokemon Circulator forces your opponent to switch their active, etc.

    “That said, do not be afraid to let something sit in your hand for you opponent to Lost Zone in a mirror. ”

    No, you don’t want anything in your hand to be Lost Zoned…

    “A huge problem that I have seen is that Vileplume has become a standard
    pairing with Gengar Prime (or any Gengar for that fact), taking the
    focus off of what Gengar actually does and scattering the player’s
    attention to the four corners of the earth.”

    You’re playing it wrong then. Vileplume trainer locks and slows down your opponent and therefore allowing Gengar Prime to live longer and Lost Zone your opponent’s Pokemon.

    Like I said, this deck is too slow. DCL is going to take 3-4 turns to set up if you’re not using Legend Box while Donphan, Rehiram, Zekrom, even Feraligatr Prime and Magnezone Prime decks will need just two turns
    to set up.

    • http://profiles.google.com/cloneworksadmin CloneWorks Admin

      just to point out – vilepulme without spiritomb doesnt work – play tested it and its just not right.
      second, legend box is a crap shoot. i’ve been play testing this deck for a while and DCL sets up just fine. from the first turn it sets up and with Zoroark it gets going even faster – search always trumps draw

      • Anonymous

        How do you use Zoroark on your first turn if you’re not allowed to evolve on your first turn?

  • http://profiles.google.com/cloneworksadmin CloneWorks Admin

    Guys howabout playtesting and lookig at it objectivly before starting the flaming?

  • http://twitter.com/carlospero CarlosPero

    It’s important to call out that Rescue Energy defeats DCL’s attack. Of course you still claim a prize, but the pokemon just went back to their hand instead of the Lost Zone.

  • Anonymous

    This deck was better the way it was. It was fast enough if you ran the shupett engine, which everyone who wasn’t playing vilelostgar did. Sableye UD? This card wasn’t overlooked, just plain bad. And you don’t even play seeker.

    Try this plain list:

    22

    1 Gengar Lv.X

    3 Gengar Prime

    3 Haunter AR Hidden Poison

    4 Gastly SF

    3 Uxie LA

    1 Uxie Lv.X

    1 Azelf LA

    3 Unown R

    2 Smeargle UD

    1 Unown Q

    26

    3 Pokemon Collector

    3 Pokemon Communication

    1 Bebe’s Search

    4 Poke Drawer +

    4 Pokedex Handy910is

    3 Seeker

    3 Professor Juniper

    1 Professor Oak’s New Theory

    4 Victory Medal

    12

    8 Psychic

    4 Call

    • Anonymous

      this is supposed to be for HGSS-on. your list does not fit that bill.

  • Travis

    “Toss on a Special Darkness energy and go to work to one hit the opposing beast to oblivion. If you’re going against the much hyped ReshiBoar deck, just remember that Reshiram is the head of the deck – take that out and the rest will go with it.”

    There is one problem with using Zoroark to fight Reshiram, and that’s a meta ruling

    “If an attack requires the discard of an Energy card attached to the
    Attacking Pokemon, that discard must be fulfilled or the attack fails.
    (Jan 31, 2008 PUI Rules Team)”

    Meaning in order for Zoroark to use Blue Flare with Nasty Plot, you would have to discard 2 fire energy, or the attack is useless.

    • Anonymous

      Not true. In fact you only have to discard the fire energy if you have it attached to zoroark. If you do not then you get to do the attack for free.

      • Travis

        That’s not true at all. It says use an attack as your own. Assuming you choose Blue Flare, the effect of the attack is “Discard 2 R Energy Attached To This Pokemon”.

        According to Meta Rule #13:

        “When a Pokemon refers to itself by name, interpret that card as though
        the text reads “this Pokemon”. This has the practical effect of not
        including other Pokemon of the same name. If a Pokemon copies that text,
        it refers to itself, not the original Pokemon”

        So Zoroark has to discard 2 Fire energy by Meta Rule #13, and if he can’t, then the attack fails as by Meta Rule #4. Meta Schooled

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MDFBEX2BW2W7GAEWAVU5B2DVFY Lee

        You are wrong. Here is the link:
        http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=146427

      • Travis

        That ruling was made this year, but there is a ruling on a completely similar subject made in 2007 that proves me right:

        Q. If Clefable metronomes Latias-EX’s “Power Crush” attack, what happens if there are no Fire Energies attached to Clefable?

        A. Clefable can copy the Power Crush attack without having any Fire
        Energy to discard as long as the Defending Pokémon is not Knocked Out by
        the attack. If the Defending Pokémon was Knocked Out and you cannot
        discard 2 Fire Energies, then this attack does nothing. (Jul 19, 2007
        PUI Rules Team)

        The Pokegym forum ruling isn’t the final ruling to me, the compendium is the go to book for all final rulings.

    • http://twitter.com/soujiroelric Carlos Vergara

      Not actually, Zoroark’s the exception. Pokemon BW FAQs stated that Zoroark can get away without paying the attack cost if it can’t pay it (if it can, Zoroark must fulfill the cost).

      • Travis

        Can I get a link to that then? Because a ruling that completely overrules another ruling is big news to me.

  • Anonymous

    Nope. Not ever.

  • Anonymous

    Donphan and machamp both knock out Darkrai/cresselia legend for 2 prizes in one turn.

    Donphan 2hko’s with earthquake, and isn’t ohko’d by Lost Crisis. Darkrai/Cresselia also has 2 retreat.

    You could potentially use lost crisis for 80, then switch to gengar, then use Cursed Drop for the KO… but seriously, I don’t think it’s worth playing darkrai/cresselia just for that.

    I’d almost always prefer to start with stantler or smeargle than with Sableye UD.

  • Anonymous

    You know. I am not a fan of the deck. lostgar should be played with mew prime and go aggro gengars/seeker/twins. dcl is too slow and squishy.

    But….. I think i like the sableye. he logic is sound cause there are only a select few starters next format
    (manaphy, skarmory, smeargle, cleffa, your decks basic) and sableye could help if you were forced to discard a stage 1 or 2 or dce or something with juniper to set up and you want it back. also, the pull out attack works really well with the new ruling of discarding supporters when you play them. once again, lets say you used juniper to reset your hand but drew poorly, you could just use the sableye’s attack to get your setup card right back in your hand.
    i think i like the sableye.

    I mean if you think about it. it might not be a bad idea for decks to play solid starters because we can no longer evolve on the first turn. This sableye seems to be ok. i mean, needing a dark for the attack blows but i think the attack is worth it.

  • Anonymous

    cool