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  • quaziko

    You really have to fix your list if you want this to be even playable. First, always max Cyrus to 4, it’s a no-brainer. You should never play one of a card if you can’t search it out, so that goes for Expert Belt, Bench Shield, Level Max, etc…you’ll never have them when you need them. I know you like the whole toolbox idea, but without Aaron’s Collection, how the heck are you going to reuse any attackers or pokemon that get KO’d?

    Lastly, it’s useless to post matchups if it’s speculation, especially speculation about a rogue deck. You would be surprised how often speculation means nothing after you test a matchup a couple of times.

    It’s a decently written article, but try to focus on logical deck lists, including testing those lists before posting any “results” from matchups.

  • quaziko

    You really have to fix your list if you want this to be even playable. First, always max Cyrus to 4, it’s a no-brainer. You should never play one of a card if you can’t search it out, so that goes for Expert Belt, Bench Shield, Level Max, etc…you’ll never have them when you need them. I know you like the whole toolbox idea, but without Aaron’s Collection, how the heck are you going to reuse any attackers or pokemon that get KO’d?

    Lastly, it’s useless to post matchups if it’s speculation, especially speculation about a rogue deck. You would be surprised how often speculation means nothing after you test a matchup a couple of times.

    It’s a decently written article, but try to focus on logical deck lists, including testing those lists before posting any “results” from matchups.

  • http://www.adamcapriola.com/ Adam Capriola

    Yeah I wasn’t sure if I would post this article or not but decided to just because it’s written fairly well and it’s not a mainstream deck. Everyone can contribute some input as far as how to fix it up.

    Like quaziko said, no need to post any matchup analysis because it’s really all irrelevant. Everybody plays different lists different ways, so you can’t state any numbers. There will always be disagreement. I can assure you that the matchups under ideal conditions (both players playing the best version of best decks perfectly) will not yield the results you think.

    How many games did you actually test this?

    But as far as the deck goes, it’s a kinda cool idea. Take out Golem and Camperupt, neither of them is good. Def play 4 Cyrus like quaziko said too. Where is the damage that accumulates on Gyarados supposed to be going? I know Alakazam moves it off, but then what happens to it?

    Regardless, thanks for writing the article Pikkdogs. :) Just try to focus more on explaining strategy and logic rather than matchups next time.

  • http://www.sixprizes.com Adam

    Yeah I wasn’t sure if I would post this article or not but decided to just because it’s written fairly well and it’s not a mainstream deck. Everyone can contribute some input as far as how to fix it up.

    Like quaziko said, no need to post any matchup analysis because it’s really all irrelevant. Everybody plays different lists different ways, so you can’t state any numbers. There will always be disagreement. I can assure you that the matchups under ideal conditions (both players playing the best version of best decks perfectly) will not yield the results you think.

    How many games did you actually test this?

    But as far as the deck goes, it’s a kinda cool idea. Take out Golem and Camperupt, neither of them is good. Def play 4 Cyrus like quaziko said too. Where is the damage that accumulates on Gyarados supposed to be going? I know Alakazam moves it off, but then what happens to it?

    Regardless, thanks for writing the article Pikkdogs. :) Just try to focus more on explaining strategy and logic rather than matchups next time.

  • RandomGuy

    Unlike Quaziko, I believe that this deck is playable it just has few kinks to work out and may not play the way you want. Quaziko did make some very vaild points though especially with having only 1 card of certain trainers.
    Also it should be noted Most people wouldn’t play decks that are weak against Flygon and Luxray GL cause they are becoming common. Where’s your Mewtwo Lv. X counter? From what I’ve heard on here It’s not showing it’s face too often, but it’s famous for shutting down SPs.
    As you said it can be a good secondary deck, but if you want it to be the killing machine and primary deck status the kinks must be worked out.
    Thanks for the article it was an interesting read.

  • RandomGuy

    Unlike Quaziko, I believe that this deck is playable it just has few kinks to work out and may not play the way you want. Quaziko did make some very vaild points though especially with having only 1 card of certain trainers.
    Also it should be noted Most people wouldn’t play decks that are weak against Flygon and Luxray GL cause they are becoming common. Where’s your Mewtwo Lv. X counter? From what I’ve heard on here It’s not showing it’s face too often, but it’s famous for shutting down SPs.
    As you said it can be a good secondary deck, but if you want it to be the killing machine and primary deck status the kinks must be worked out.
    Thanks for the article it was an interesting read.

  • http://www.pokecardex.com/ dragonnair

    As it was sayed in the other comments, I think that you should take some techs off and add roseannes ans cyrus etc…
    Against Gyarados, I think it’s an autoloss given that every version has something to increase the attack and that with 3 or 4 BTS, it will control the stadium.

  • http://www.pokecardex.com dragonnair

    As it was sayed in the other comments, I think that you should take some techs off and add roseannes ans cyrus etc…
    Against Gyarados, I think it’s an autoloss given that every version has something to increase the attack and that with 3 or 4 BTS, it will control the stadium.

  • corrupti0N

    Gyrados G is a terrible card.. Why dont you play Turtwig GL instead if you want damage counter manipulation? You don’t even need to poketurn turtwig to get rid of the damage.. just attack with belt and remove 80 every turn.

    Also, definitely max out cyrus and roseannes.

  • corrupti0N

    Gyrados G is a terrible card.. Why dont you play Turtwig GL instead if you want damage counter manipulation? You don’t even need to poketurn turtwig to get rid of the damage.. just attack with belt and remove 80 every turn.

    Also, definitely max out cyrus and roseannes.

  • http://forum.pokemon.fi/ Tonu

    I like the deck idea, but I don’t think this list is going to work out very well. This deck doesn’t even have one SP Radar in it.
    Garchomp C lvX could be nice tech in this deck. Level it up and heal every damage counter on every SP Pokémon. Nidoqueen could be hard to get in play, but a 60-80 heal in one full turn sounds quite great (Nidoqueen and Clydol uses a bench slot :/).

    About the Gyarados SF matchup; IMO, it should be 80-20 to Gyarados SF rather than 80-20 to Alakazam. This matchup is basically up to Gyarados SF:s list. If it can pull Alakazam on front (Palkia lvX/Luxray GL lvX/Unown M/Blower+)it’s almost an auto-win. If it haves a lot of PP’s/Warp Points/Cyclones/tech or Infernape 4 lvX; Gyarados is likely to win. Even if you would get that Exp Belt Gyarados G and Temple in play, Gyarados SF deck can draw prices from the benched Pokémons via various methods. Belted Gyarados SF can also OHKO Gyarados G by playing new BTS with two PP’s. Raichu GL needs Lucario GL and 4 damaged Pokémons on opponent’s bench in order to OHKO Gyarados SF. Swarming Gyaradosses, failed SSU’s or a terrible starting hand sounds most logical reason to lose to this deck.

    PS: You failed to count your energies correctly. So you can add one card. :)

  • http://forum.pokemon.fi Tonu

    I like the deck idea, but I don’t think this list is going to work out very well. This deck doesn’t even have one SP Radar in it.
    Garchomp C lvX could be nice tech in this deck. Level it up and heal every damage counter on every SP Pokémon. Nidoqueen could be hard to get in play, but a 60-80 heal in one full turn sounds quite great (Nidoqueen and Clydol uses a bench slot :/).

    About the Gyarados SF matchup; IMO, it should be 80-20 to Gyarados SF rather than 80-20 to Alakazam. This matchup is basically up to Gyarados SF:s list. If it can pull Alakazam on front (Palkia lvX/Luxray GL lvX/Unown M/Blower+)it’s almost an auto-win. If it haves a lot of PP’s/Warp Points/Cyclones/tech or Infernape 4 lvX; Gyarados is likely to win. Even if you would get that Exp Belt Gyarados G and Temple in play, Gyarados SF deck can draw prices from the benched Pokémons via various methods. Belted Gyarados SF can also OHKO Gyarados G by playing new BTS with two PP’s. Raichu GL needs Lucario GL and 4 damaged Pokémons on opponent’s bench in order to OHKO Gyarados SF. Swarming Gyaradosses, failed SSU’s or a terrible starting hand sounds most logical reason to lose to this deck.

    PS: You failed to count your energies correctly. So you can add one card. :)

  • Power Swing

    These matchups are way off.
    I like the creativity though. Im working with alakazam as well, my deck is dialga g/palkia g/alakazam 4/snowpoint temple.
    My strategy is to use alakazam to move damage counters onto high hp worthless sp pokemon, and then use palkid to send that pokemon and those damage counters to the lost zone. It basically heals my dialga. Its working out great. Tell me what you think.

  • Power Swing

    These matchups are way off.
    I like the creativity though. Im working with alakazam as well, my deck is dialga g/palkia g/alakazam 4/snowpoint temple.
    My strategy is to use alakazam to move damage counters onto high hp worthless sp pokemon, and then use palkid to send that pokemon and those damage counters to the lost zone. It basically heals my dialga. Its working out great. Tell me what you think.

  • Dave Hueglin

    Hey pikkdogs,

    I also like the idea behind your deck. As many have said, it’s going to take a lot of testing to go from good idea to good deck. My two cents of input is that at some point you are going to need to not only move damage counters around, but also move Energy – that’s where Lucian’s Assignment comes in. I would try to fit in at least two of them. I also think Drifblim SF (see previous article) might work as both a Mewtwo counter and a way to get extra draw power. You could then maybe drop the Pokemon Rescue and Night Maintenance.

    Bottom line – don’t give up on the idea – just keep playing around with different card combinations until you get one that works well.

  • Dave Hueglin

    Hey pikkdogs,

    I also like the idea behind your deck. As many have said, it’s going to take a lot of testing to go from good idea to good deck. My two cents of input is that at some point you are going to need to not only move damage counters around, but also move Energy – that’s where Lucian’s Assignment comes in. I would try to fit in at least two of them. I also think Drifblim SF (see previous article) might work as both a Mewtwo counter and a way to get extra draw power. You could then maybe drop the Pokemon Rescue and Night Maintenance.

    Bottom line – don’t give up on the idea – just keep playing around with different card combinations until you get one that works well.

  • Pikkdogs

    Thanks for posting it, I know its not a mainstream deck but it does work.

    Hey guys, thanks for posting my deck and for the input on it. I am going to defend it now, not because I’m mad about what your saying, but because I need to explain it more, obviously.

    I have tested this many times, including in tournament and battleroad play. Most of my matchups were decks I played against, I did have to simulate the Gyrados matchup, but I did play the other ones. Like Adam said, it all depneds on what cards you run in those decks.

    Yes I had to run a lot of cards at 1 each, because I would like 4 cyrus’s, but I cant fit that in because I need to play flints, and expert belt, and bench shield. Yes that takes a little away from consistency, so to balance that out I have Azelf. I would like an SP radar, but I just dont have the space. The card that could go the most is Raichu Gl.

    Golem isnt good, but hes there to put some pressure on luxray Gl, and he has 130 HP with snowpoint temple, so you can load the damage counters on him and then poketurn. Camerupt is there because he is the best fire SP in regards to SP. I tried Turtwig Gl, but he just didnt have enough HP, I would need shaymin ground forme x to make turtwig playable. Gyarados G is awesome in this deck, he can hit for 100, and can get up to 150 HP with expert belt. As to where the damage counters go, you can put them all onto Golem 4 and then poketurn up Golem and all the damage counters.

    I dont run Aarons Collection the point of this deck is that you dont lose your main attacker. If you are like playing a grass deck, you might have to pokemon resuce camerupt G once or something, but for the most part your main attacker does not die. If the damage counters become to much you like down a golem 4 and then move every damage counter to him, so you have a guy with no energy dieing istead of a main attacker.

    Garchomp C, might be alright. Use him instead of Regigigas FB as your flygon tech. But that gives you at least 1 extra card to set up, and if you aren’t playing flygon then you just wasted 2 cards instead of 1.

    Yeah in the decklist I typed the energies wrong, there should be 2 fighting energies and 1 lightning.

    Powerswing- Yeah an Alakazam 4 tech into a palkia G lock is a good idea. It might be hard to set up 2 or 3 level x’s though. Its hard enough to just set up one.

    • quaziko

      Consistency comes first. The whole idea of this deck runs around Alakazam 4. How are you even going to get that out with only three bebe’s search? Sure you have 2 Cyrus, but that even wastes more time. There are simply too many things you have going on. For instance, even if you get a Lv. Max, it’s a flip. If you want to focus on Alakazam and Gyarados, you must include 4 Cyrus and SP Radar. Also, take out Flint’s and add Bronzong G. Call energy would also be a good idea, and an Uxie. If you want to use minimum tool lines, you’ll need Department Girl. When you make a list, think consistency first, then techs. Right now you have a deck with 60 techs.

  • Pikkdogs

    Thanks for posting it, I know its not a mainstream deck but it does work.

    Hey guys, thanks for posting my deck and for the input on it. I am going to defend it now, not because I’m mad about what your saying, but because I need to explain it more, obviously.

    I have tested this many times, including in tournament and battleroad play. Most of my matchups were decks I played against, I did have to simulate the Gyrados matchup, but I did play the other ones. Like Adam said, it all depneds on what cards you run in those decks.

    Yes I had to run a lot of cards at 1 each, because I would like 4 cyrus’s, but I cant fit that in because I need to play flints, and expert belt, and bench shield. Yes that takes a little away from consistency, so to balance that out I have Azelf. I would like an SP radar, but I just dont have the space. The card that could go the most is Raichu Gl.

    Golem isnt good, but hes there to put some pressure on luxray Gl, and he has 130 HP with snowpoint temple, so you can load the damage counters on him and then poketurn. Camerupt is there because he is the best fire SP in regards to SP. I tried Turtwig Gl, but he just didnt have enough HP, I would need shaymin ground forme x to make turtwig playable. Gyarados G is awesome in this deck, he can hit for 100, and can get up to 150 HP with expert belt. As to where the damage counters go, you can put them all onto Golem 4 and then poketurn up Golem and all the damage counters.

    I dont run Aarons Collection the point of this deck is that you dont lose your main attacker. If you are like playing a grass deck, you might have to pokemon resuce camerupt G once or something, but for the most part your main attacker does not die. If the damage counters become to much you like down a golem 4 and then move every damage counter to him, so you have a guy with no energy dieing istead of a main attacker.

    Garchomp C, might be alright. Use him instead of Regigigas FB as your flygon tech. But that gives you at least 1 extra card to set up, and if you aren’t playing flygon then you just wasted 2 cards instead of 1.

    Yeah in the decklist I typed the energies wrong, there should be 2 fighting energies and 1 lightning.

    Powerswing- Yeah an Alakazam 4 tech into a palkia G lock is a good idea. It might be hard to set up 2 or 3 level x’s though. Its hard enough to just set up one.

    • quaziko

      Consistency comes first. The whole idea of this deck runs around Alakazam 4. How are you even going to get that out with only three bebe’s search? Sure you have 2 Cyrus, but that even wastes more time. There are simply too many things you have going on. For instance, even if you get a Lv. Max, it’s a flip. If you want to focus on Alakazam and Gyarados, you must include 4 Cyrus and SP Radar. Also, take out Flint’s and add Bronzong G. Call energy would also be a good idea, and an Uxie. If you want to use minimum tool lines, you’ll need Department Girl. When you make a list, think consistency first, then techs. Right now you have a deck with 60 techs.

  • Pikkdogs

    Oh another thing

    I feel that Flygon might be played less once the Legends series comes out, because there will cease to be Lv.x’s, so the drop in Flygon will help this deck.

    Once Flygon goes you can substitute powersprays for the flygon counter, so you can powerspray bright look, so Luxray Gl wont kill you.

    And Mewtwo is a problem, If you run this deck you just have to hope you dont run into him, and if you do then try to stall and use warp points to kill someone else. If that doesnt work, hope they deck out first.

  • Pikkdogs

    Oh another thing

    I feel that Flygon might be played less once the Legends series comes out, because there will cease to be Lv.x’s, so the drop in Flygon will help this deck.

    Once Flygon goes you can substitute powersprays for the flygon counter, so you can powerspray bright look, so Luxray Gl wont kill you.

    And Mewtwo is a problem, If you run this deck you just have to hope you dont run into him, and if you do then try to stall and use warp points to kill someone else. If that doesnt work, hope they deck out first.

  • Richard

    I have a friend at league who made a Alakazam 4/Turtwig GL deck and work fairly well. Basically you’ll have Alakazam 4 Lv.X on the bench moving damage counters to Turtwig GL and hit for 60 + healing, like a Sponge deck…

  • Richard

    I have a friend at league who made a Alakazam 4/Turtwig GL deck and work fairly well. Basically you’ll have Alakazam 4 Lv.X on the bench moving damage counters to Turtwig GL and hit for 60 + healing, like a Sponge deck…

  • Pikkdogs

    Okay I took your advice and maxed out on cyrus’s, and put a sp radar in. I must agree that the change does help to improve consistency, the cyrus’s lets me get poketurns whenever I need them, or the radar early game.

    This deck may not be the best now, but I think in the future it could be very good.

  • Pikkdogs

    Okay I took your advice and maxed out on cyrus’s, and put a sp radar in. I must agree that the change does help to improve consistency, the cyrus’s lets me get poketurns whenever I need them, or the radar early game.

    This deck may not be the best now, but I think in the future it could be very good.

  • quaziko

    It’s definitely a cool idea, just keep working at it and make sure it functions like you want it to as often and quickly as possible.

  • quaziko

    It’s definitely a cool idea, just keep working at it and make sure it functions like you want it to as often and quickly as possible.

  • pokefart

    cool deck,I need a alakazam x

  • cool dawg,

    cool deck I need charizard!!!!

  • pokefart

    cool deck,I need a alakazam x

  • cool dawg,

    cool deck I need charizard!!!!

  • BB2Si

    I’ve always been a fan of the Alakazam ’4′ Lv.X. When I make the deck around him I also include Turtwig ‘GL’ to help deal out some damage as well as take off the damage counters. Have you thought about running a Gallade ’4′ Lv.X as well? It’s Poke-Power works quite well for spreading out some damage along with it’s 2 Energy attack for 20 damage and 10 more to each of your opponent’s benched.

    Also I noticed you said that Gyarados from Stormfront could only deal out 90 damage? There is a way around that if the person running the deck also runs Garchomp Lv.X. I also built a deck using a 4-4 line of Gyarados SF alone with a 2-1-2-1 line of Garchomp Lv.X from Majestic Dawn. His attack “Revive” allows you to put a Pokemon from your Discard Pile to your Bench regardless of stage excluding Lv.X. This would allow the player to use Gyarados’s costless attack for 120 damage if all 4 Magikarps are in the Discard Pile.

    Aside from that, it’s a pretty good deck. Just needs a few adjustments here and there. You can only use PokeTurn so many times. :(

  • BB2Si

    I’ve always been a fan of the Alakazam ’4′ Lv.X. When I make the deck around him I also include Turtwig ‘GL’ to help deal out some damage as well as take off the damage counters. Have you thought about running a Gallade ’4′ Lv.X as well? It’s Poke-Power works quite well for spreading out some damage along with it’s 2 Energy attack for 20 damage and 10 more to each of your opponent’s benched.

    Also I noticed you said that Gyarados from Stormfront could only deal out 90 damage? There is a way around that if the person running the deck also runs Garchomp Lv.X. I also built a deck using a 4-4 line of Gyarados SF alone with a 2-1-2-1 line of Garchomp Lv.X from Majestic Dawn. His attack “Revive” allows you to put a Pokemon from your Discard Pile to your Bench regardless of stage excluding Lv.X. This would allow the player to use Gyarados’s costless attack for 120 damage if all 4 Magikarps are in the Discard Pile.

    Aside from that, it’s a pretty good deck. Just needs a few adjustments here and there. You can only use PokeTurn so many times. :(

  • HunterJ

    cool deck but i wouldnt personally run it in a tournament
    i would give it a 6-7/10

  • HunterJ

    cool deck but i wouldnt personally run it in a tournament
    i would give it a 6-7/10

  • pikkdogs

    Yeah I dont bring it to a tournament, but I love playing with it at home.

    Its really fun, and maybe it might somehow get some good support to make it good.

  • pikkdogs

    Yeah I dont bring it to a tournament, but I love playing with it at home.

    Its really fun, and maybe it might somehow get some good support to make it good.

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