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  • Joe

    hey Pablo, I think the way you got the dusk ball percentage in that scenario is wrong. I’m almost certain that the percent would still be under 50% though. I’ll try to get an exact percent by the end of the day if you want (can’t now, I have classes)

  • Joe

    hey Pablo, I think the way you got the dusk ball percentage in that scenario is wrong. I’m almost certain that the percent would still be under 50% though. I’ll try to get an exact percent by the end of the day if you want (can’t now, I have classes)

  • Master Entei

    Yeah, the math on the Dusk Ball looks weird… 1% should be if you could get to look at one card from 100, and you want something that there is only one of in those 100 cards, right?

    And Dusk Ball has the advantage that you can get any one of the Pokemon in those 7 cards. Usually, on T2, you want to get your main attacker up. That means that if you’ve got, say, a Horsea/Kingdra and a Candy in your hand and a Baltoy on your bench(maybe a bit optimistic, but T2 more than possible), you want either Claydol, Horsea or Kingdra, possibly even Uxie. That’s 9 cards out of 60, which should be theoretically enough to find in those 7 cards.

    Well, that turned out sounding stupid and VERY optimistical. But you get my point. :P

  • Master Entei

    Yeah, the math on the Dusk Ball looks weird… 1% should be if you could get to look at one card from 100, and you want something that there is only one of in those 100 cards, right?

    And Dusk Ball has the advantage that you can get any one of the Pokemon in those 7 cards. Usually, on T2, you want to get your main attacker up. That means that if you’ve got, say, a Horsea/Kingdra and a Candy in your hand and a Baltoy on your bench(maybe a bit optimistic, but T2 more than possible), you want either Claydol, Horsea or Kingdra, possibly even Uxie. That’s 9 cards out of 60, which should be theoretically enough to find in those 7 cards.

    Well, that turned out sounding stupid and VERY optimistical. But you get my point. :P

  • Xicious

    I’d rather run more Luxury Ball.

  • Xicious

    I’d rather run more Luxury Ball.

  • Pablo

    Joe – Sure, I wasn’t 100% sure on the Dusk ball math, but I’m pretty sure it’s a very bad looking one compared to Poke Ball’s 50%.

    Master Entei – Yeah I might be off on the Dusk Ball math, but I don’t think it’ll be be better than Poke Ball’s 50%. And also yes, Dusk Ball gets significantly better, and so does Quick Ball, if you can consider other Pokemon apart from Claydol as success, but I think on average Claydol is the most important card you are looking for when playing stage 2 decks.

    Xicious – Like I mention in the article, this of course considers you have already maxed out on your other Pokemon searching options, including 4 Bebe’s Search, and 2 or 3 Luxury Ball, but a card such as Poke Ball would be more focused for a very fast deck.

    • Joe

      yeah, given you scenario (43 cards and 2 being Claydols) Dusk Ball gives you about 30% chance of getting at least 1 of them in the 7, still less then 50%. I think I did the math right

    • Joe

      yeah, given you scenario (43 cards and 2 being Claydols) Dusk Ball gives you about 30% chance of getting at least 1 of them in the 7, still less then 50%. I think I did the math right

      • http://www.adamcapriola.com/ Adam Capriola

        St. Joe’s education is paying off lol ;)

  • Pablo

    Joe – Sure, I wasn’t 100% sure on the Dusk ball math, but I’m pretty sure it’s a very bad looking one compared to Poke Ball’s 50%.

    Master Entei – Yeah I might be off on the Dusk Ball math, but I don’t think it’ll be be better than Poke Ball’s 50%. And also yes, Dusk Ball gets significantly better, and so does Quick Ball, if you can consider other Pokemon apart from Claydol as success, but I think on average Claydol is the most important card you are looking for when playing stage 2 decks.

    Xicious – Like I mention in the article, this of course considers you have already maxed out on your other Pokemon searching options, including 4 Bebe’s Search, and 2 or 3 Luxury Ball, but a card such as Poke Ball would be more focused for a very fast deck.

    • Joe

      yeah, given you scenario (43 cards and 2 being Claydols) Dusk Ball gives you about 30% chance of getting at least 1 of them in the 7, still less then 50%. I think I did the math right

      • http://www.sixprizes.com Adam

        St. Joe’s education is paying off lol ;)

  • J-Wittz

    Joe’s right on the dusk ball stats thing. Your odds of drawing a claydol off the top of your deck are 5% (2/43). Looking at the top 7 cards of your deck should yield a much higher percentage chance of uncovering claydol than 5%. I already got my AP Statistics credit so I’ve started to flush a lot of the things I learned last year away, but let’s say you look at the first 6 cards of dusk ball and get nothing. Then I know at least there your chance of seeing Claydol on the 7th card is as high as 2/37, which is still only 5.5 % ish. The odds will definitely be below those of pokeball’s.

    But onto the card itself. I think Pokeball is a great card in a deck that can make space for it. That’s part of why it doesn’t see much space today– all these techs and counter-strategies takes up all of our deck space! Despite the fact that I’m possibly the luckiest dice roller of all time, this card is still worth its weight from time to time despite its luck factor. I used this card to a high degree of success in Regigigas last CC’s for two tournaments and it was great for getting uxies and mesprits. However, over time I remodeled the engine and replaced my 4x pokeball for 4x pokedrawer, because gigas’ high draw capabilities gave it a high probability of having two pokedrawers in hand.

    There are two alternatives very much like pokeball, one I don’t like as much but still use and the other I like better:

    The first is the trophy card Victory Medal, which you can usually only obtain through winning a battle roads. The text states “flip two coins. If exactly one is heads draw a card, if exactly two are heads search your deck for any card and put it into your hand”. Here you have 75% chance of drawing a card, and 25% of getting a half-double-drawer or a single-computer-search. Some will like this card better because it has a lower failure rate, some will like it less because of its lower capability to search through the deck. It’s definitely something to look at though– any deck that can fit pokeballs could also try V Medal (if you own any =P) in its place to measure which card helps more. Once again, I loved this card in gigas.

    The second is a new and overlooked card in our upcoming set: night teleporter. As far as flippy trainers go, I like this card even better than pokeball or victory medal. The text? “Flip a coin, if heads shuffle your hand into your deck and search your deck for any one card and put it into your hand”. I can’t imagine ever getting anything other than roseanne’s if you haven’t played a supporter or uxie if you have. As long as you aren’t facing power spray or power lock circumstances, a heads on a 50-50 trainer card means a full 7- card hand refresh through uxie’s “set up”. Now, with decks that depend more on claydol or that require bench space to function I do not recommend this card, but in decks that rely on an uxie engine this card is awesome. It works poorly with claydol because if you search your deck for your one card and pick claydol, evolving will give you an empty hand and no means to use his “cosmic power” :P.

    Just some food for thought. Nice article, Pablo–I always thought pokeball was an overlooked card. I like pokeball in any deck that can fit it, and I love decks that run off trainer draw engines. What do you guys think about victory medal and night teleporter, our other flippy trainers?

  • J-Wittz

    Joe’s right on the dusk ball stats thing. Your odds of drawing a claydol off the top of your deck are 5% (2/43). Looking at the top 7 cards of your deck should yield a much higher percentage chance of uncovering claydol than 5%. I already got my AP Statistics credit so I’ve started to flush a lot of the things I learned last year away, but let’s say you look at the first 6 cards of dusk ball and get nothing. Then I know at least there your chance of seeing Claydol on the 7th card is as high as 2/37, which is still only 5.5 % ish. The odds will definitely be below those of pokeball’s.

    But onto the card itself. I think Pokeball is a great card in a deck that can make space for it. That’s part of why it doesn’t see much space today– all these techs and counter-strategies takes up all of our deck space! Despite the fact that I’m possibly the luckiest dice roller of all time, this card is still worth its weight from time to time despite its luck factor. I used this card to a high degree of success in Regigigas last CC’s for two tournaments and it was great for getting uxies and mesprits. However, over time I remodeled the engine and replaced my 4x pokeball for 4x pokedrawer, because gigas’ high draw capabilities gave it a high probability of having two pokedrawers in hand.

    There are two alternatives very much like pokeball, one I don’t like as much but still use and the other I like better:

    The first is the trophy card Victory Medal, which you can usually only obtain through winning a battle roads. The text states “flip two coins. If exactly one is heads draw a card, if exactly two are heads search your deck for any card and put it into your hand”. Here you have 75% chance of drawing a card, and 25% of getting a half-double-drawer or a single-computer-search. Some will like this card better because it has a lower failure rate, some will like it less because of its lower capability to search through the deck. It’s definitely something to look at though– any deck that can fit pokeballs could also try V Medal (if you own any =P) in its place to measure which card helps more. Once again, I loved this card in gigas.

    The second is a new and overlooked card in our upcoming set: night teleporter. As far as flippy trainers go, I like this card even better than pokeball or victory medal. The text? “Flip a coin, if heads shuffle your hand into your deck and search your deck for any one card and put it into your hand”. I can’t imagine ever getting anything other than roseanne’s if you haven’t played a supporter or uxie if you have. As long as you aren’t facing power spray or power lock circumstances, a heads on a 50-50 trainer card means a full 7- card hand refresh through uxie’s “set up”. Now, with decks that depend more on claydol or that require bench space to function I do not recommend this card, but in decks that rely on an uxie engine this card is awesome. It works poorly with claydol because if you search your deck for your one card and pick claydol, evolving will give you an empty hand and no means to use his “cosmic power” :P.

    Just some food for thought. Nice article, Pablo–I always thought pokeball was an overlooked card. I like pokeball in any deck that can fit it, and I love decks that run off trainer draw engines. What do you guys think about victory medal and night teleporter, our other flippy trainers?

  • J-Wittz

    Joe’s right on the dusk ball stats thing. Your odds of drawing a claydol off the top of your deck are 5% (2/43). Looking at the top 7 cards of your deck should yield a much higher percentage chance of uncovering claydol than 5%. I already got my AP Statistics credit so I’ve started to flush a lot of the things I learned last year away, but let’s say you look at the first 6 cards of dusk ball and get nothing. Then I know at least there your chance of seeing Claydol on the 7th card is as high as 2/37, which is still only 5.5 % ish. The odds will definitely be below those of pokeball’s.

    But onto the card itself. I think Pokeball is a great card in a deck that can make space for it. That’s part of why it doesn’t see much space today– all these techs and counter-strategies takes up all of our deck space! Despite the fact that I’m possibly the luckiest dice roller of all time, this card is still worth its weight from time to time despite its luck factor. I used this card to a high degree of success in Regigigas last CC’s for two tournaments and it was great for getting uxies and mesprits. However, over time I remodeled the engine and replaced my 4x pokeball for 4x pokedrawer, because gigas’ high draw capabilities gave it a high probability of having two pokedrawers in hand.

    There are two alternatives very much like pokeball, one I don’t like as much but still use and the other I like better:

    The first is the trophy card Victory Medal, which you can usually only obtain through winning a battle roads. The text states “flip two coins. If exactly one is heads draw a card, if exactly two are heads search your deck for any card and put it into your hand”. Here you have 75% chance of drawing a card, and 25% of getting a half-double-drawer or a single-computer-search. Some will like this card better because it has a lower failure rate, some will like it less because of its lower capability to search through the deck. It’s definitely something to look at though– any deck that can fit pokeballs could also try V Medal (if you own any =P) in its place to measure which card helps more. Once again, I loved this card in gigas.

    The second is a new and overlooked card in our upcoming set: night teleporter. As far as flippy trainers go, I like this card even better than pokeball or victory medal. The text? “Flip a coin, if heads shuffle your hand into your deck and search your deck for any one card and put it into your hand”. I can’t imagine ever getting anything other than roseanne’s if you haven’t played a supporter or uxie if you have. As long as you aren’t facing power spray or power lock circumstances, a heads on a 50-50 trainer card means a full 7- card hand refresh through uxie’s “set up”. Now, with decks that depend more on claydol or that require bench space to function I do not recommend this card, but in decks that rely on an uxie engine this card is awesome. It works poorly with claydol because if you search your deck for your one card and pick claydol, evolving will give you an empty hand and no means to use his “cosmic power” :P.

    Just some food for thought. Nice article, Pablo–I always thought pokeball was an overlooked card. I like pokeball in any deck that can fit it, and I love decks that run off trainer draw engines. What do you guys think about victory medal and night teleporter, our other flippy trainers?

  • quaziko

    One caveat against playing non-supporters are pokemon like Gastly and Dialga, which can stop all those trainers in their tracks. Yes, this is most helpful against stadiums and rare candies, but stopping SP radars, Luxury Balls, and any other nice little trainer you might have could be pretty devastating depending on how you rely on said trainer.

    On Poke Ball, it has definitely been underrated, however you would be pressed to run 4 in a deck if you used it. Out of all the “Ball” Trainers, Great Ball has been proven to be far and away the most helpful, where Quick Ball has been efficient in low-pokemon count decks, such as Kricketune. Nice article, good insight.

  • quaziko

    One caveat against playing non-supporters are pokemon like Gastly and Dialga, which can stop all those trainers in their tracks. Yes, this is most helpful against stadiums and rare candies, but stopping SP radars, Luxury Balls, and any other nice little trainer you might have could be pretty devastating depending on how you rely on said trainer.

    On Poke Ball, it has definitely been underrated, however you would be pressed to run 4 in a deck if you used it. Out of all the “Ball” Trainers, Great Ball has been proven to be far and away the most helpful, where Quick Ball has been efficient in low-pokemon count decks, such as Kricketune. Nice article, good insight.

  • quaziko

    One caveat against playing non-supporters are pokemon like Gastly and Dialga, which can stop all those trainers in their tracks. Yes, this is most helpful against stadiums and rare candies, but stopping SP radars, Luxury Balls, and any other nice little trainer you might have could be pretty devastating depending on how you rely on said trainer.

    On Poke Ball, it has definitely been underrated, however you would be pressed to run 4 in a deck if you used it. Out of all the “Ball” Trainers, Great Ball has been proven to be far and away the most helpful, where Quick Ball has been efficient in low-pokemon count decks, such as Kricketune. Nice article, good insight.

  • http://www.adamcapriola.com/ Adam Capriola

    I remember using Poke Ball in a turn 2 Manectric ex deck a while back, it worked decently but then Mewtrik came along and the whole turn 2 Manectric idea wasn’t that strong anyway.

    I agree w/ Kyle tho, I’d rather run 2 Luxury Ball than play this. I don’t think there is any deck out there right now that needs more Pokemon searching than 4 Roseanne, 4 Bebe, and 2 Luxury Ball.

    However if you’re a newer player and don’t have all those cards yet, then Poke Ball is a good play!

    Night Teleporter is interesting, but again I don’t know if it’s really worth the risk. Maybe in a specific deck it could be good.

  • http://www.sixprizes.com Adam

    I remember using Poke Ball in a turn 2 Manectric ex deck a while back, it worked decently but then Mewtrik came along and the whole turn 2 Manectric idea wasn’t that strong anyway.

    I agree w/ Kyle tho, I’d rather run 2 Luxury Ball than play this. I don’t think there is any deck out there right now that needs more Pokemon searching than 4 Roseanne, 4 Bebe, and 2 Luxury Ball.

    However if you’re a newer player and don’t have all those cards yet, then Poke Ball is a good play!

    Night Teleporter is interesting, but again I don’t know if it’s really worth the risk. Maybe in a specific deck it could be good.

  • kiwill

    I’ve never been that good in maths, but I think the real percentage for dusk ball is around 33% (for your particular example). So to put it in a simpler way, it’s either you have one chance out of two to get the card you want, or you get one chance out of three to get the card you want but with the option to grab an other one. IMO the choice between theses two cards depend more on the deck you’re using than personal taste.
    Aaaaaanywho, I remember running 4 of theses in a ZRE with Magcargo which was probably one of my all time favorite decks to play :)
    Other than that I must admit I rarely use them, but I do consider it to be a good card.

  • kiwill

    I’ve never been that good in maths, but I think the real percentage for dusk ball is around 33% (for your particular example). So to put it in a simpler way, it’s either you have one chance out of two to get the card you want, or you get one chance out of three to get the card you want but with the option to grab an other one. IMO the choice between theses two cards depend more on the deck you’re using than personal taste.
    Aaaaaanywho, I remember running 4 of theses in a ZRE with Magcargo which was probably one of my all time favorite decks to play :)
    Other than that I must admit I rarely use them, but I do consider it to be a good card.

  • Woodstock

    Sure Poke Ball is better than Quick Ball and Dusk Ball, but is it better than SP Radar or Luxury Ball? Nope.

    I would rather rely on reliable cards than fit one of these in and waste a turn.

    Here’s a possible scenario:

    You have a bad hand to start, and have a Baltoy GE out as your main attacker with no Bench. Oh crap.
    Turn 1 you draw into a Poke Ball, you flip, and you get tails. Waste of a draw, and waste of a spot in your deck. I would never consider running more than 2 of Poke Ball in my deck either, meaning when you draw the card your chances of flipping heads is 1 making the other one you draw (if the game goes on) completely useless.

  • Woodstock

    Sure Poke Ball is better than Quick Ball and Dusk Ball, but is it better than SP Radar or Luxury Ball? Nope.

    I would rather rely on reliable cards than fit one of these in and waste a turn.

    Here’s a possible scenario:

    You have a bad hand to start, and have a Baltoy GE out as your main attacker with no Bench. Oh crap.
    Turn 1 you draw into a Poke Ball, you flip, and you get tails. Waste of a draw, and waste of a spot in your deck. I would never consider running more than 2 of Poke Ball in my deck either, meaning when you draw the card your chances of flipping heads is 1 making the other one you draw (if the game goes on) completely useless.

  • Woodstock

    Sure Poke Ball is better than Quick Ball and Dusk Ball, but is it better than SP Radar or Luxury Ball? Nope.

    I would rather rely on reliable cards than fit one of these in and waste a turn.

    Here’s a possible scenario:

    You have a bad hand to start, and have a Baltoy GE out as your main attacker with no Bench. Oh crap.
    Turn 1 you draw into a Poke Ball, you flip, and you get tails. Waste of a draw, and waste of a spot in your deck. I would never consider running more than 2 of Poke Ball in my deck either, meaning when you draw the card your chances of flipping heads is 1 making the other one you draw (if the game goes on) completely useless.

  • RAY

    I agree with pablo, I think the Poke Ball is a potentially useful card

  • RAY

    I agree with pablo, I think the Poke Ball is a potentially useful card

  • RAY

    I agree with pablo, I think the Poke Ball is a potentially useful card

  • lordholly

    I just don’t have room to fit in a possible dead draw, let alone 2 or 3. In order to get first hand statistics up high enough to maximize the possibility of it being in the first 7 you have to run 3 or 4.

    Nice write up though, it did get me thinking and make me open excel and run some stats…;-)

  • lordholly

    I just don’t have room to fit in a possible dead draw, let alone 2 or 3. In order to get first hand statistics up high enough to maximize the possibility of it being in the first 7 you have to run 3 or 4.

    Nice write up though, it did get me thinking and make me open excel and run some stats…;-)

  • lordholly

    I just don’t have room to fit in a possible dead draw, let alone 2 or 3. In order to get first hand statistics up high enough to maximize the possibility of it being in the first 7 you have to run 3 or 4.

    Nice write up though, it did get me thinking and make me open excel and run some stats…;-)

  • nardd

    Underrated for sure, but pokeball has better alternatives in most decks. It’s great for prereleases though! :6

  • nardd

    Underrated for sure, but pokeball has better alternatives in most decks. It’s great for prereleases though! :6

  • nardd

    Underrated for sure, but pokeball has better alternatives in most decks. It’s great for prereleases though! :6

  • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb kwisdumb

    This card is definitely useful after you’ve exhausted Bebe’s, Roseanne’s, Lux, etc. that’s for sure. It’d be interesting to run, but I can’t say that I’ve ever used it, heh.

    Would be good for a pre-release, as someone else said.

  • http://twitter.com/kwisdumb kwisdumb

    This card is definitely useful after you’ve exhausted Bebe’s, Roseanne’s, Lux, etc. that’s for sure. It’d be interesting to run, but I can’t say that I’ve ever used it, heh.

    Would be good for a pre-release, as someone else said.

  • Dave Hueglin

    I would still go for Dusk Ball because more often than not there are at least two different Pokemon that I could search for that would be useful. I think that changes the odds slightly more in favour of Dusk Ball.

  • Dave Hueglin

    I would still go for Dusk Ball because more often than not there are at least two different Pokemon that I could search for that would be useful. I think that changes the odds slightly more in favour of Dusk Ball.

  • WDIF

    Poke Ball is not a good card. Maybe decent. Only because there is such awful evolution searching trainers in this format. Yay, 1 or 1 & 1/2 Luxury Ball. Computer Search, Pokemon Trader, Pokemon Breeder Fields, Oracle, Professor Elm’s Training Mehod and Celio’s Network are all superior to Bebe’s Search.

  • WDIF

    Poke Ball is not a good card. Maybe decent. Only because there is such awful evolution searching trainers in this format. Yay, 1 or 1 & 1/2 Luxury Ball. Computer Search, Pokemon Trader, Pokemon Breeder Fields, Oracle, Professor Elm’s Training Mehod and Celio’s Network are all superior to Bebe’s Search.

  • WDIF

    Poke Ball is not a good card. Maybe decent. Only because there is such awful evolution searching trainers in this format. Yay, 1 or 1 & 1/2 Luxury Ball. Computer Search, Pokemon Trader, Pokemon Breeder Fields, Oracle, Professor Elm’s Training Mehod and Celio’s Network are all superior to Bebe’s Search.

  • PokePockets

    PokeBall was (and in some decks we still have built) is a GREAT card. In decks where we weren’t sure what to put in extra slots we had, “what about PokeBall”

    It’s especially true in the Tangrowth/Sceptile deck my friend has built. With it being a deck with a Stage 1 attacker and a pokemon that needs to get out ASAP, PokeBall really helps.

    Heck, if you flip tails, you can draw another card with Cosmic Power!

  • PokePockets

    PokeBall was (and in some decks we still have built) is a GREAT card. In decks where we weren’t sure what to put in extra slots we had, “what about PokeBall”

    It’s especially true in the Tangrowth/Sceptile deck my friend has built. With it being a deck with a Stage 1 attacker and a pokemon that needs to get out ASAP, PokeBall really helps.

    Heck, if you flip tails, you can draw another card with Cosmic Power!

  • PokePockets

    PokeBall was (and in some decks we still have built) is a GREAT card. In decks where we weren’t sure what to put in extra slots we had, “what about PokeBall”

    It’s especially true in the Tangrowth/Sceptile deck my friend has built. With it being a deck with a Stage 1 attacker and a pokemon that needs to get out ASAP, PokeBall really helps.

    Heck, if you flip tails, you can draw another card with Cosmic Power!

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