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  • Anonymous

    nice article. wow i didnt know cleffas go for at least 6 bucks now! the only thing i have to express my opinion on is yanmega. while he takes 3 hits fomr donphan, donphan takes 3 hits from yanmage. also during those 3 turns you have to play copcat or judge normally and then cant play anything else.

    • David G

      Or you could be a pro player and use normal hand refresh and just play your hand down to where it should be. I’ve been testing with Yanmega for the past week and it’s not difficult to get your handsize down if you need to. Judge or Copycat are only there for the “Oh lawd, he has 15 cards in hand…” moments. Otherwise you’ll be just playing through your hand and just be aware of your oppponent’s hand size before you do stuff.

      • Anonymous

        lmao, so true. Hand refreshing, fail search, and sunflora all serve to make equaling hands that much easier. Yanmega is what I ran in MD on, and it was amazing how many people said that Yanmega was awful because equaling hands was “too hard.” In this format, it seems even easier to equal hands – what with cleffa eeking all over the place and setting your opponent to a nice standard 6.

      • Anonymous

        i would agree, equaling hands is really easy, especially since with junk arm you can manipulate your hand size very easily, the problem is getting the hand size up, and that’s where judge and copycat come into play.

  • A Z

    Yanmega is NOT a donphan counter…

    • Anonymous

      How is it not a donphan counter? With ruins of alph that you shouldn’t be using in donphan anyways? Yanmega gets 3 shotted while making the donphan player think twice about EQ’ing due to linear attack, since 50 hp basics could then be one shotted by yanmega. Yanmega, played correctly, is easily swarmable and can retreat to another yanmega upon taking any damage from donphan – something else that donphan cannot quite do very easily.

      • Anonymous

        Key phrase: “If played correctly.” The learning curve for using Yanmega is not as easy as it may seem at first, but once you learn to play it correctly, you are right. 

      • Anonymous

        Good points dude, Yanmega can counter him pretty well BUT i think you’re wrong about Ruins of Alph. That card is a BEAST! I played Donphan at Nats (MD on) and got so many KOs with Ruins. Yanmega is seen as a good counter, Ruins makes him a so-so counter (as you can easily 2-hit with Donphan then). Then there’s other things like Jumpluff. Fighting is a popular resistance.

        Also, with so few decks playing Stadiums now you can generally just put it in play and leave it :D

      • A Z

        it may be true that yanmega is good against donphan, but it is not a counter… a counter would be something like samurott which OHKO the donphan while donphan can pretty much do nothing to comeback

        counter kill in one attack not over turns allowing them to set up more… also any good donphan deck will have something to take care of a yanmega

        theorymon vs theorymon for days!

      • Anonymous

        A Z is right about Yanmega. It’s really just the wording though. Sure you can use Yanmega as a tech against Donphan, however it is not really a counter. Yanmega would take three shots to KO a Donphan the same way it would take Donphan three turns to KO a Yanmega.

        You wouldn’t say Donphan is a counter to Yanmega would you, then why would Yanmega be a counter to Donphan. It more or less stalls a Donphan deck. However, it gives the person running Donphan time to put three energies on it or if the Donphan deck is running Machamp, using Yanmega would give it way too much time to get out a Machamp.

  • Anonymous

    Although I do think there are a few issues along the lines of over-opiniation (Yanmega, Smeargle, RDL not good in ReshiBoar, among others), I will definitely be using this article to give me a guideline for what to bring in my binder to Nationals. Well written article, just a few unneeded commas. Getting a “like” from me for sure.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XUUNX7VMZ4VU2VXABXPFNYONJQ Edgar F

    More stating the obvious…it’s not BAD, but I don’t find it’s great either.

  • Anonymous

    #9 – Pokemon CollectorThe best Supporter card available by far, this guy lets you set up, avoid donks and is just amazing.I disagree. Whether or not he is the ‘best supporter card available’, i’d have to say that Juniper is the best supporter. The fact that, at the end of the day, when you Juniper you will find basics makes it just as good for setting up and avoiding donks. Pokemon Collector is basically useless after turn 2, except for getting basics to communicate back into the deck. I’ve not even been using more than 2 collectors in any of my decks. Dual Ball gets all the basics i’d ever need, and if it doesnt, I can just juniper in the same turn.

    • David G

      The choice to run Collector or Dual Ball and in what ratios is entirely dependant on the deck. You can’t make general statements about either. Both are good in some situations. Originally I was all about Dual Ball, but I’ve been going the other way in most decks now and using Collector more. A sure thing that takes the supporter for turn is preferable to a flip. Just how I’m feeling now and I’m sure I’ll switch later on.

      • Anonymous

        Either way, I guess collector SHOULD be there due to cost… although Juniper had a lot of hype.

        I agree with collector and dual ball – dual ball IS flippy, but i’ve found it to be better. The real point was that Juniper >= Collector in terms of usefulness in general, but juniper is stuck at #25

  • Anonymous

    Smeargle does not deserve to be that high, he is bad without unown q, and with the abundance of juniper.

  • Anonymous

    indercarvie-He’s still considered a donphan counter, i loved the card when i first started testing it, but i do now disagree and i’ve scratched him completely as a donphan counter dude, but that doesn’t mean other people haven’t :/
    Yeah i know i was surprised Clerffa was that high as well

    David G-yeah, i agree with that statement, a lot of times(especially in Zekrom), it’s easy to get your hand size down, but not up, so i completely agree.

    A Z-i agree w/ that statement now, but some people still like the card.

    storm07-but seeing as yanmega is mostly a tech, it’s harder to swarm w/ it, and Donphan also can swarm pretty well too.

    yindoxy-maybe, but if you are running a 2-2 Yanmega as a tech in Zekrom, i find it hard to be able to swarm and beat donphan, now if it’s a 3-3 or 4-4 line, like in MegaJudge it usually can cripple donphan and win.

    Draconosh-Yeah, I did say in the first that my opinion could sway some cards, but it seems to be getting a good discussion, although i didn’t say RDL wasn’t good in Reshiboar i said it was mainly used in Magboar, i would definitely reccommend putting RDL in reshiboar.

    Edgar F-okay

    Jahoiki/David G-Well Juniper tbh isn’t bad, but i think people overestimate how playable it is, in several decks its a one of, at best, b/c these are decks that just can’t whisk their hand away. Collector is literally a 3 or 4 of in about 8 or 9 out of 10 decks, the exceptions being ZPS and other speed decks like that. Also Sage’s is good and gives juniper some competition of the low risk end

    legos12-i stated that in my article, that he really  shouldn’t be that high but  when i typed it up he was still considered a better starter and cleffa’s price hadn’t skyrocketed.

  • Anonymous

    indercarvie-He’s still considered a donphan counter, i loved the card when i first started testing it, but i do now disagree and i’ve scratched him completely as a donphan counter dude, but that doesn’t mean other people haven’t :/
    Yeah i know i was surprised Clerffa was that high as well

    David G-yeah, i agree with that statement, a lot of times(especially in Zekrom), it’s easy to get your hand size down, but not up, so i completely agree.

    A Z-i agree w/ that statement now, but some people still like the card.

    storm07-but seeing as yanmega is mostly a tech, it’s harder to swarm w/ it, and Donphan also can swarm pretty well too.

    yindoxy-maybe, but if you are running a 2-2 Yanmega as a tech in Zekrom, i find it hard to be able to swarm and beat donphan, now if it’s a 3-3 or 4-4 line, like in MegaJudge it usually can cripple donphan and win.

    Draconosh-Yeah, I did say in the first that my opinion could sway some cards, but it seems to be getting a good discussion, although i didn’t say RDL wasn’t good in Reshiboar i said it was mainly used in Magboar, i would definitely reccommend putting RDL in reshiboar.

    Edgar F-okay

    Jahoiki/David G-Well Juniper tbh isn’t bad, but i think people overestimate how playable it is, in several decks its a one of, at best, b/c these are decks that just can’t whisk their hand away. Collector is literally a 3 or 4 of in about 8 or 9 out of 10 decks, the exceptions being ZPS and other speed decks like that. Also Sage’s is good and gives juniper some competition of the low risk end

    legos12-i stated that in my article, that he really  shouldn’t be that high but  when i typed it up he was still considered a better starter and cleffa’s price hadn’t skyrocketed.

  • Adam Bigott

    Yeah….smeargle has gone down in price and is not that great of a card. I don’t even think he should be on here, let alone be better ranked than cleffa. Cleffa is more hyped, has a higher price, and is, in my opinion at least, more playable. Also, why is there such a big difference between reshiram and zekrom on this list? I feel like they should be equal and could have even been combined to fill one slot on this list. As for seeker, #12? Really? what decks use it? Lostgar varients, some donchamp and some ZPS. It has also not seen much hype and its price has stayed the same for the last six months or so. Your synopsis for each card is nice, but the list itself seems off.

  • Anonymous

    Adam Biggot-Yeah, i explained the smeargle in the article, the reason Zekrom was higher was that it got that gray background error/second run card, and has seen a little bit more hype IMO when talking to friends etc. Seeker was 12 b/c his RH Price is high and is pretty much used in ZPS, Lostgar and maybe a 1 of tech in Shuckle decks., and he could be in DonChamp too.

  • aura

    http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Bianca_(TCG)Magnezone's ability supporter form!!! Pretty awesome.

  • Anonymous

    A great combo with yanmega is blissey prime.  since yanmega won’t have any energies attached to it you heal it for free.  

  • Anonymous

    Nice job! Thanks for the completed list.

     

  • Anonymous

    Some suprises here, Tyranitar in the top 10 and Reshiram at 15 (10 spots below Zekrom). 

    While I don’t know how you calculated value for Reshiram and Zekrom  since they can go from $4 to $12 depending on which version they are.  I think on a good day Zekrom should be right by Reshiram, but on most days I would put Zekrom around #15, while Reshiram is a solid top 10.  Just my opinion though.

    Tyranitar and Yanmega in the top 10.  That was a surprise too.  Tyranitar is not really being talked about right now, and Yanmega could possibly be all talk.  I know Yanmega is nice and versatile, but I don’t jump up and down for 70 damage and 110 HP.  Tyrantiar had a lot of hype but still never found a good deck.  The SF t-tar was a lot better than the prime will ever be, and the SF wasn’t even played that much.  And whats with Gengar being so high? His playability is dropping off the table, even if the price is the same.

    Like I said last time, on playability alone, Juniper and Communication should make top 5, even if they have low prices.  This is more of a good guide for trading, while playability is taking a back seat.

    Good guide for trading though.  And I gotta respect your opinion, so nice article, but more for trading purposes than for play purposes.

  • Anonymous

    ____ shouldn’t be on the list!

    How did you not put _____ on the list!

    XP

    Cleffa HGSS/CoL is pretty good, though.

  • Anonymous

    MatthwRddl-Cleffa’s featured in part one.

    pikkdogs-thnx for starting some discussion, and yeah this really is for trading only, not so much playability.