A Shuppet Counter?

Lumineon Stormfront SF 4 Pokemon CardIn the past couple of weeks I’ve noticed a surge in the popularity of decks built about Shuppet PL. There have been a couple of articles on 6P that display the merits of these decks. They are fun, fairly cheap to make, and they are used to decimate popular decks that do not utilize many energies to attack with the assistance of Mr. Mime MT. These include decks based around Kingdra LA, Gengar SF, and other Shuppet decks. This was also terrible news for my Speedrill deck since the main attacker, Beedrill GE, only uses one energy for its “Band Attack.”

Before I tossed it up as an auto-loss, I remembered reading about how helpful Lumineon SF was at setting up Machamp SF. Its Poké-Power “Fin Luster” would pull a basic out of your opponent’s hand to switch with the active and then Machamp would use “Take Out.” In Shuppet decks there will always be a basic in your opponent’s hand and an open bench spot after “Fade Out” is used. This is why I decided to tech in a 1-1 line to give my Beedrills some company. However, I think this line could be helpful in many Stage 2 decks.

I’m sure there are a couple of readers that have noticed that you still need a Warp Point or a Switch in order to get Lumineon from the bench to the Active Spot so that it can then retreat for your main attacker to become active. Which may lead to some asking why not just use a Warp Point? Well there is always the chance your opponent has two Mr. Mimes in play or no other benched Pokémon. If you are reduced to using a Warp Point regardless, why not use “Fin Luster” to pull out Shuppet (your opponent’s main attacker) and take advantage of its 50 HP. Or if your active gets Knocked Out Lumineon can become active without wasting a card.

Finneon Stormfront SF 61Unfortunately, like with any tech you do run the risk of starting with it. However, both Finneon SF and Lumineon have free attacks. Neither attacks are Earth-shattering, but with their free costs and a free Retreat Cost on the Stage 1, you do not have to feel stuck.

While I would probably not play Lumineon against non-Shuppet decks it could be handy in other situations like pulling out a Crobat G or any of the AMU pixies so they can’t use their Poké-Powers. This also might be good to use against Gyarados to send a Magikarp to the discard pile the right way.

Reader Interactions

83 replies

  1. Hey there, very interesting article and this is a card I have always thought its ‘true’ potential hasn’t been uncovered yet. Here’s a thought for you: given how you need a Warp Point or Switch, why not give Warp Energy’s a try, specially in the low energy cost decks like Kingdra or Beedrill? This way you will not only be able to get rid of a Shuppet or get a ‘free’ prize now and then, but you can also add an energy to such Pokemon and next turn attach another one to be ready to KO the problematic Mr. Mime. Seems something worth looking into.

  2. Super Scoop Up/Poké Turn to active Pokémon is also one alternate way to bring your Lumineon to active. In Beedrill, SSUs and Warp Points are often played, so I don’t see a reason not to try it out if people plays Shuppet in your area.

    •  → Tonu

      Good point about SSUs, and I do max out on them. I usually rely on them to “Time Walk” more than once, free up much needed bench space, or combat my friends that use Dusknoir (the one with Dark Palm). However, they could be useful for this scenario as well.

  3. Myuu

    I don’t think you need a counter to Shuppet (or really Mr. Mime). Other then more energies. But it’s a good idea to play it and if you’re seeing a lot of play and you have a hard time playing around it it would be a great idea to try it out. And playing cards like Wrap Energy I think would be a good idea. You won’t have to play trainers like switch and you’ll get an extra energy at your pokemon making you able to deal with Mr. Mime afterwards to.

  4. Myuu

    I don’t think you need a counter to Shuppet (or really Mr. Mime). Other then more energies. But it’s a good idea to play it and if you’re seeing a lot of play and you have a hard time playing around it it would be a great idea to try it out. And playing cards like Wrap Energy I think would be a good idea. You won’t have to play trainers like switch and you’ll get an extra energy at your pokemon making you able to deal with Mr. Mime afterwards to.

    • L M  → Myuu

      Good point! I feel I run enough energies to often get three on one of my Pokemon. I usually prefer those energies to go on Beedrill from Rising Rivals. If I can not OHKO something with “Band Attack” and an Expert Belt, I like to use “Needle Shock” to paralyze and poison the defending Pokemon.

  5. I don’t think you need a counter to Shuppet (or really Mr. Mime). Other then more energies. But it’s a good idea to play it and if you’re seeing a lot of play and you have a hard time playing around it it would be a great idea to try it out. And playing cards like Wrap Energy I think would be a good idea. You won’t have to play trainers like switch and you’ll get an extra energy at your pokemon making you able to deal with Mr. Mime afterwards to.

    •  → Myuu

      Good point! I feel I run enough energies to often get three on one of my Pokemon. I usually prefer those energies to go on Beedrill from Rising Rivals. If I can not OHKO something with “Band Attack” and an Expert Belt, I like to use “Needle Shock” to paralyze and poison the defending Pokemon.

  6. Drew Stillwell

    This is a cool idea. Gyarados certainly has room for it, but most a lot of variants play something switch related, like luxray GL, warp point, or cyclone energy.

  7. Great comments guys! Pablo and Myuu I totally forgot about Warp Energies! They would be perfect in this situation against Spiritomb. I realize all I would need are two bees and it’s gone, but I’d prefer to take out the opponent’s attacker. Also it might just be the thing against a Gliscor/Spiritomb Lock.

  8. Pablo Meza

    Hey there, very interesting article and this is a card I have always thought its ‘true’ potential hasn’t been uncovered yet. Here’s a thought for you: given how you need a Warp Point or Switch, why not give Warp Energy’s a try, specially in the low energy cost decks like Kingdra or Beedrill? This way you will not only be able to get rid of a Shuppet or get a ‘free’ prize now and then, but you can also add an energy to such Pokemon and next turn attach another one to be ready to KO the problematic Mr. Mime. Seems something worth looking into.

  9. Pablo Meza

    Hey there, very interesting article and this is a card I have always thought its ‘true’ potential hasn’t been uncovered yet. Here’s a thought for you: given how you need a Warp Point or Switch, why not give Warp Energy’s a try, specially in the low energy cost decks like Kingdra or Beedrill? This way you will not only be able to get rid of a Shuppet or get a ‘free’ prize now and then, but you can also add an energy to such Pokemon and next turn attach another one to be ready to KO the problematic Mr. Mime. Seems something worth looking into.

  10. Clinton Chan

    I really like the thought of Lumineon as a great tech against Shuppet, but is Shuppet even a deck that needs such an investment of card slots to counter. Auto loses to Dialga and less then favorable match ups to popular decks right now doesn’t seem like Shuppet would do much.

  11. DUSK

    very interesting but if the full bench would be the problem

    • Eelis Peltola  → DUSK

      If your opponent is playing Shuppet, they will always have at least one bench space open, as the Shuppet goes to your opponen’t hand with it’s attack.

    • Toni Taitto  → DUSK

      How often do you see full bench on Shuppet (after the attacking phase)?

      When the Shuppet goes to hand, there’s at least one free space on the bench, obviously. Against other decks, it may be a problem.

  12. DUSK

    very interesting but if the full bench would be the problem

    • Eelis Peltola  → DUSK

      If your opponent is playing Shuppet, they will always have at least one bench space open, as the Shuppet goes to your opponen’t hand with it’s attack.

    •  → DUSK

      How often do you see full bench on Shuppet (after the attacking phase)?

      When the Shuppet goes to hand, there’s at least one free space on the bench, obviously. Against other decks, it may be a problem.

  13. Adam Capriola

    I’ve really like this card but have never thought of any incredible ways to make use of it.

    It does seem pretty good against Shuppet, but the problem against other decks is that they can usually keep basics out of their hand.

    • SMGausch  → Adam

      Thats the magic of a 1-1 line only ever has to see play against things like shuppet. I actually like this tech possibly with gallade/gardevoir. GG can dominate alot of decks, but at least in my area it has become almost unplayable with shuppet roaming around. With a 1-1 line of this KOing shuppets and a weavile using chip off you could potentially cripple their deck and pull out a win.

  14. Eelis Peltola

    I could see this working with some kind of spread. Or maybe a Luxray GL or a Gyarados that’s more focused on pulling weak benched Pokemon to the front.
    Kinda useless in other decks, as they can just put the basic to the bench(excluding of course Shuppet).

  15. Toni Taitto

    Super Scoop Up/Poké Turn to active Pokémon is also one alternate way to bring your Lumineon to active. In Beedrill, SSUs and Warp Points are often played, so I don’t see a reason not to try it out if people plays Shuppet in your area.

    • L M  → Toni

      Good point about SSUs, and I do max out on them. I usually rely on them to “Time Walk” more than once, free up much needed bench space, or combat my friends that use Dusknoir (the one with Dark Palm). However, they could be useful for this scenario as well.

  16. Toni Taitto

    Super Scoop Up/Poké Turn to active Pokémon is also one alternate way to bring your Lumineon to active. In Beedrill, SSUs and Warp Points are often played, so I don’t see a reason not to try it out if people plays Shuppet in your area.

  17. Joshua Pikka

    excellent use of this card. You are brilliant.

    Can go in almost any deck, and useful against many decks.

  18. Brandon

    that is a great idea to take down shuppet he is was getting to popular in my oppinion this will put him in his place.

  19. Brandon

    that is a great idea to take down shuppet he is was getting to popular in my oppinion this will put him in his place.

  20. Brandon

    that is a great idea to take down shuppet he is was getting to popular in my oppinion this will put him in his place.

  21. Clinton Chan

    The reason its popular because the deck is cheap, super easy to play(practically brainless), and might even win games. Still not sure what Shuppet is supposed to beat and as long as Dialga G is always there to put it in its place, this deck is not something to think about when designing a new deck.

  22. SMGausch

    I think shuppet is more viable then many people give it credit for being. With a Mime tech, Spiritomb AR tech, and Shuckle tech it can really slow down a ton of decks. Also I don’t know what area Diagla G is really popular in but its not my area. Sure some SP decks run it as a mewtwo counter, but its not going to have a huge effect on shuppet. Are you going to Deafen lock all game? Besides decks like BlazeRay and LuxApe have a field day with Dialga g.

    And if you want the absolute best shuppet counter Lamar has one together its MewTwo with Giratina let loose.

  23. Drew Stillwell

    This is a cool idea. Gyarados certainly has room for it, but most a lot of variants play something switch related, like luxray GL, warp point, or cyclone energy.

  24. Drew Stillwell

    This is a cool idea. Gyarados certainly has room for it, but most a lot of variants play something switch related, like luxray GL, warp point, or cyclone energy.

  25. L M

    Great comments guys! Pablo and Myuu I totally forgot about Warp Energies! They would be perfect in this situation against Spiritomb. I realize all I would need are two bees and it’s gone, but I’d prefer to take out the opponent’s attacker. Also it might just be the thing against a Gliscor/Spiritomb Lock.

  26. L M

    Great comments guys! Pablo and Myuu I totally forgot about Warp Energies! They would be perfect in this situation against Spiritomb. I realize all I would need are two bees and it’s gone, but I’d prefer to take out the opponent’s attacker. Also it might just be the thing against a Gliscor/Spiritomb Lock.

  27. Clinton Chan

    If you are running Dialga G and see your opponent is playing Shuppet why won’t you deafen all game? They can’t do more then 10 dmg and when you start dropping special metals onto him its over. Some of the best players in the Midwest are playing Dialga G and has won many of cities. Like any SP decks Dialga G decks has tech counters that can hold off fire.

  28. SMGausch

    I understand that dialga g is a good match-up that’s no question, but its not even close to an auto win against shuppet is all I’m saying with a good list running shuckle for when you drop those specials and spiritomb to stop your sp radars, energy gain, poketurn, etc. I play in northeast(PA/DE) area and I just see far to many things that counter dialga g for it to be more than a tech line, and as such no more effective a way to play around shuppet than anything else. You have to play smart, avoid the turn one donk, use your warps/Bright looks well, and attach energy.

  29. SMGausch

    I do have to say though I would love to see someone deafen lock all game for the win.

  30. Clinton Chan

    I really like the thought of Lumineon as a great tech against Shuppet, but is Shuppet even a deck that needs such an investment of card slots to counter. Auto loses to Dialga and less then favorable match ups to popular decks right now doesn’t seem like Shuppet would do much.

  31. Adam Capriola

    I’ve really like this card but have never thought of any incredible ways to make use of it.

    It does seem pretty good against Shuppet, but the problem against other decks is that they can usually keep basics out of their hand.

    • SMGausch  → Adam

      Thats the magic of a 1-1 line only ever has to see play against things like shuppet. I actually like this tech possibly with gallade/gardevoir. GG can dominate alot of decks, but at least in my area it has become almost unplayable with shuppet roaming around. With a 1-1 line of this KOing shuppets and a weavile using chip off you could potentially cripple their deck and pull out a win.

    • SMGausch  → Adam

      Thats the magic of a 1-1 line only ever has to see play against things like shuppet. I actually like this tech possibly with gallade/gardevoir. GG can dominate alot of decks, but at least in my area it has become almost unplayable with shuppet roaming around. With a 1-1 line of this KOing shuppets and a weavile using chip off you could potentially cripple their deck and pull out a win.

  32. Richard Lee

    Dialga G Lv.X > Shuckle SW
    Dialga G Lv.X > Mr. Mime MT
    Dialga G Lv.X > Spiritomb AR

    • SMGausch  → Richard

      Very true, but cannot level up turn 1 and with crobat drops, poke blowers, etc. that dialga g may no longer be there. Dialga G has a distinct advantage there, but what I was saying is that I don’t know of anyone that would run straight Dialga G it’s usually a tech and as such not as effective at stopping shuppet completely. You could try to deafen lock all game or could just bench sit it, but then the just put out crobat to absorb a hit, then SSU or turn it and hit away. Straight Dialga G may be as close to an auto-win against shuppet as there is, but what else does it beat?

      • SMGausch  → SMGausch

        Just started reading up on some Garchomp C Dialga G decks and they look to be one of the best way to use Dialga G to its fullest definitely an auto win against shuppet. Wonder when I’ll start seeing these lists around here. Looks like a pretty good Sally counter too.

  33. Eelis Peltola

    I could see this working with some kind of spread. Or maybe a Luxray GL or a Gyarados that’s more focused on pulling weak benched Pokemon to the front.
    Kinda useless in other decks, as they can just put the basic to the bench(excluding of course Shuppet).

  34. Dialga G Lv.X is definitely a beast. But I was trying to point out the merits of Lumineon in a non-SP deck, not just my Beedrill variant. For example, it could allow a Gengar player to look at an opponent’s hand before using “Poltergeist” without needing a Looker’s Investigation. “Time Crystal” may turn off the important Poke-Bodies of your deck. A couple other downsides are Dialga’s retreat cost and the fact that you can not Level-Up on the bench (sans Level Max which means having to fit in another card).

  35. Joshua Pikka

    excellent use of this card. You are brilliant.

    Can go in almost any deck, and useful against many decks.

  36. Clinton Chan

    The reason its popular because the deck is cheap, super easy to play(practically brainless), and might even win games. Still not sure what Shuppet is supposed to beat and as long as Dialga G is always there to put it in its place, this deck is not something to think about when designing a new deck.

  37. Clinton Chan

    The reason its popular because the deck is cheap, super easy to play(practically brainless), and might even win games. Still not sure what Shuppet is supposed to beat and as long as Dialga G is always there to put it in its place, this deck is not something to think about when designing a new deck.

  38. SMGausch

    I think shuppet is more viable then many people give it credit for being. With a Mime tech, Spiritomb AR tech, and Shuckle tech it can really slow down a ton of decks. Also I don’t know what area Diagla G is really popular in but its not my area. Sure some SP decks run it as a mewtwo counter, but its not going to have a huge effect on shuppet. Are you going to Deafen lock all game? Besides decks like BlazeRay and LuxApe have a field day with Dialga g.

    And if you want the absolute best shuppet counter Lamar has one together its MewTwo with Giratina let loose.

  39. SMGausch

    I think shuppet is more viable then many people give it credit for being. With a Mime tech, Spiritomb AR tech, and Shuckle tech it can really slow down a ton of decks. Also I don’t know what area Diagla G is really popular in but its not my area. Sure some SP decks run it as a mewtwo counter, but its not going to have a huge effect on shuppet. Are you going to Deafen lock all game? Besides decks like BlazeRay and LuxApe have a field day with Dialga g.

    And if you want the absolute best shuppet counter Lamar has one together its MewTwo with Giratina let loose.

  40. Clinton Chan

    If you are running Dialga G and see your opponent is playing Shuppet why won’t you deafen all game? They can’t do more then 10 dmg and when you start dropping special metals onto him its over. Some of the best players in the Midwest are playing Dialga G and has won many of cities. Like any SP decks Dialga G decks has tech counters that can hold off fire.

  41. Clinton Chan

    If you are running Dialga G and see your opponent is playing Shuppet why won’t you deafen all game? They can’t do more then 10 dmg and when you start dropping special metals onto him its over. Some of the best players in the Midwest are playing Dialga G and has won many of cities. Like any SP decks Dialga G decks has tech counters that can hold off fire.

  42. SMGausch

    I understand that dialga g is a good match-up that’s no question, but its not even close to an auto win against shuppet is all I’m saying with a good list running shuckle for when you drop those specials and spiritomb to stop your sp radars, energy gain, poketurn, etc. I play in northeast(PA/DE) area and I just see far to many things that counter dialga g for it to be more than a tech line, and as such no more effective a way to play around shuppet than anything else. You have to play smart, avoid the turn one donk, use your warps/Bright looks well, and attach energy.

  43. SMGausch

    I understand that dialga g is a good match-up that’s no question, but its not even close to an auto win against shuppet is all I’m saying with a good list running shuckle for when you drop those specials and spiritomb to stop your sp radars, energy gain, poketurn, etc. I play in northeast(PA/DE) area and I just see far to many things that counter dialga g for it to be more than a tech line, and as such no more effective a way to play around shuppet than anything else. You have to play smart, avoid the turn one donk, use your warps/Bright looks well, and attach energy.

  44. SMGausch

    I do have to say though I would love to see someone deafen lock all game for the win.

  45. SMGausch

    I do have to say though I would love to see someone deafen lock all game for the win.

  46. Robert Hall

    So I played Uxie donk (which is pretty much shuppet) during cities, and dialga G was an auto loss for me. Because you can only drop the crobat that you have in your deck which is either 2-4, after that, you can never play a single stadium or poke turn or ssu or any trainer ever again. Thats basically what he did was deafen lock me the whole entire game. Then when time was called he finished me off with a real attack and won by 2 or 3 prizes! So i think dialga is better than lumineon. But if you really hate diagla you can just tech in 2 spiritomb and 2 dark energy. Lock em up all game and just do 10 damage. Spiritomb as a teck does pretty good in decks that also teck nidoqueen (maternal comfort). So i think i would go with dialga g or spiritomb AR instead of lumineon

  47. Richard Lee

    Dialga G Lv.X > Shuckle SW
    Dialga G Lv.X > Mr. Mime MT
    Dialga G Lv.X > Spiritomb AR

    • SMGausch  → Richard

      Very true, but cannot level up turn 1 and with crobat drops, poke blowers, etc. that dialga g may no longer be there. Dialga G has a distinct advantage there, but what I was saying is that I don’t know of anyone that would run straight Dialga G it’s usually a tech and as such not as effective at stopping shuppet completely. You could try to deafen lock all game or could just bench sit it, but then the just put out crobat to absorb a hit, then SSU or turn it and hit away. Straight Dialga G may be as close to an auto-win against shuppet as there is, but what else does it beat?

      • SMGausch  → SMGausch

        Just started reading up on some Garchomp C Dialga G decks and they look to be one of the best way to use Dialga G to its fullest definitely an auto win against shuppet. Wonder when I’ll start seeing these lists around here. Looks like a pretty good Sally counter too.

  48. Richard Lee

    Dialga G Lv.X > Shuckle SW
    Dialga G Lv.X > Mr. Mime MT
    Dialga G Lv.X > Spiritomb AR

  49. L M

    Dialga G Lv.X is definitely a beast. But I was trying to point out the merits of Lumineon in a non-SP deck, not just my Beedrill variant. For example, it could allow a Gengar player to look at an opponent’s hand before using “Poltergeist” without needing a Looker’s Investigation. “Time Crystal” may turn off the important Poke-Bodies of your deck. A couple other downsides are Dialga’s retreat cost and the fact that you can not Level-Up on the bench (sans Level Max which means having to fit in another card).

  50. L M

    Dialga G Lv.X is definitely a beast. But I was trying to point out the merits of Lumineon in a non-SP deck, not just my Beedrill variant. For example, it could allow a Gengar player to look at an opponent’s hand before using “Poltergeist” without needing a Looker’s Investigation. “Time Crystal” may turn off the important Poke-Bodies of your deck. A couple other downsides are Dialga’s retreat cost and the fact that you can not Level-Up on the bench (sans Level Max which means having to fit in another card).

  51. John Kettler

    You Deafen Lock the entire game vs Shuppet until the last prize – no exceptions (almost).

    Even if they run a tech such as Luxray GL LV.X or Blaziken FB LV.X, you will likely still Deafen (or only temporarily break the lock if you don’t run Expert Belt for Luxray).

  52. Richard Lee

    Another good Shuppet counter would be Azelf MT, the Shuppet player will always be behind 1 turn because of the extra colorless energy requirement… Even if they managed to KO it on the bench, it would over-extending it…

  53. Robert Hall

    So I played Uxie donk (which is pretty much shuppet) during cities, and dialga G was an auto loss for me. Because you can only drop the crobat that you have in your deck which is either 2-4, after that, you can never play a single stadium or poke turn or ssu or any trainer ever again. Thats basically what he did was deafen lock me the whole entire game. Then when time was called he finished me off with a real attack and won by 2 or 3 prizes! So i think dialga is better than lumineon. But if you really hate diagla you can just tech in 2 spiritomb and 2 dark energy. Lock em up all game and just do 10 damage. Spiritomb as a teck does pretty good in decks that also teck nidoqueen (maternal comfort). So i think i would go with dialga g or spiritomb AR instead of lumineon

  54. Robert Hall

    So I played Uxie donk (which is pretty much shuppet) during cities, and dialga G was an auto loss for me. Because you can only drop the crobat that you have in your deck which is either 2-4, after that, you can never play a single stadium or poke turn or ssu or any trainer ever again. Thats basically what he did was deafen lock me the whole entire game. Then when time was called he finished me off with a real attack and won by 2 or 3 prizes! So i think dialga is better than lumineon. But if you really hate diagla you can just tech in 2 spiritomb and 2 dark energy. Lock em up all game and just do 10 damage. Spiritomb as a teck does pretty good in decks that also teck nidoqueen (maternal comfort). So i think i would go with dialga g or spiritomb AR instead of lumineon

  55. John Kettler

    You Deafen Lock the entire game vs Shuppet until the last prize – no exceptions (almost).

    Even if they run a tech such as Luxray GL LV.X or Blaziken FB LV.X, you will likely still Deafen (or only temporarily break the lock if you don’t run Expert Belt for Luxray).

  56. Richard Lee

    Another good Shuppet counter would be Azelf MT, the Shuppet player will always be behind 1 turn because of the extra colorless energy requirement… Even if they managed to KO it on the bench, it would over-extending it…

  57. RandomGuy

    A very interesting choice for a Shuppet counter. Though I do see it as a problem to get Lumineon as Finneon may have been already destroyed if you were to go first. Seems risky to use in case you go first, but the very good effect of countering Suppet decks. Nice job.

  58. RandomGuy

    A very interesting choice for a Shuppet counter. Though I do see it as a problem to get Lumineon as Finneon may have been already destroyed if you were to go first. Seems risky to use in case you go first, but the very good effect of countering Suppet decks. Nice job.

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